Posted on 08/31/2007 6:16:40 AM PDT by PlainOleAmerican
The first truth we must find is a way to swallow this - we have exactly the government we elected!
Our Republican President has a public approval rating hovering around 30% and our Democrat congress has an approval rating down around 20%. Clearly, we don’t think much of our government, but we elected them and what does that say about us?
(snip)
In my last column titled “Ron Paul—A Liberal-tarian, not a Conservative," I demonstrated how easy it is to attack any politician on his alleged voting record, demonize an entire group on the basis of a few in that group who are willing to use unethical tactics to promote their allegedly ethical candidate, and cause a firestorm of political banter, both pro and con, without ever really getting to the heart of the subject at hand.
Welcome to American politics circa 2007
(Excerpt) Read more at capitolhillcoffeehouse.com ...
I think the idea that oil will flow with ease is naive. Leaving Iraq aside, a total withdrawl from the region will leave a power vacumn astride half the worlds oil. Iran will clearly have ambitions, a nuclear Iran able to intimidate the region, but I'd put my money on Russia. They've clients in the region, Egypt and Syria, and the Saudis won't be our pals once we've abandoned them. As the world's second largest oil producer, defacto control of mideast supplies would be a natural route to economic power.
Personally I think the first flashpoint could be Korea. Reunification of the North with the economically powerful south would be a great temptation.
You misstate me. Where did I say anything about 'control[ling] other governments'? I wrote "turn over control of events", not control of governments. My point is that we have to be a player on the World stage. And, unfortunately, sometimes being a player involves armed conflict. It also involves maintaining influential relationships with other governments, and, yes, sometimes 'propping up' governments that aren't the model we'd wish. But that, to me, is better than sticking our heads up our you-know-what and ignoring the World; and that's Ron Paul's solution.
I do not consider myself an isolationist. I want to open up our markets to everyone and allow free trade to make this world a better place for all involved. I want to engage other countries through trade and free enterprise. I want us to lead by example.
That's nice. That's also laudable. But you can't have your Utopian free trade wonderland without the oft-times need to support it through intervention; sometimes militarily. Just because we lead by example and play 'nicey nicey' with the World, that doesn't mean others will fall in line and respect our wishes. There will be (are) times when we must intervene to maintain that view. And if you can't understand the need, you then ARE an isolationist.
I applaud your commitment to the War in Iraq. But you're mistaken if you believe Ron Paul, and others, aren't committed to the opposite; a complete withdrawal from Iraq, if not also Afghanistan and the the Middle-East as a whole.
Please! Be aware of the ramifications should certain misguided Americans have their say in the 2008 elections. And Ron Paul can rightly be lumped with that group.
It can also mean this: How life returned to the streets in a showpiece city that drove out al-Qaeda.
I didn’t misstate you, I quoted the whole passage.
I agree that there are times when we need to act. I supported Iraq and Afghanistan. I even support military action against Iran. That isn’t very isolationist of me.
Do we need to be sending billions of dollars to Egypt and Israel? Should we rethink our process of dumping our excess food from agricultural subsidies on foreign markets? Do we need to give all that money to Columbians and manipulate them into fighting our drug war? What is the tangible return on any of these investments?
Could Israel survive on their own? Sure. And we could always help them out if attacked. We don’t need to give them billions in military aid. Make them buy what they want; our markets are open to them. Many people hate that we give them billions in military aid that they don’t need. What is the benefit to us?
Could Egyptian cotton farmers prosper if we stopped dumping cotton on world markets? Hell yeah they could. Do we need to keep sending them billions in aid? What is the benefit to us?
What has any of the Columbian money done for us?
Maybe if we cut all aid we could more easily see where aid is truly needed and most useful. Many of the aid cuts would help enhance both freedom and private markets. That is to say that our aid often works against freedom and private market forces.
I can’t make any sense of it. We need to just cut it off.
I've read that, but find it hard to believe. Link?
Well, you quoted the whole passage, but misstated me by implying I wrote of controlling governments, when I clearly wrote of controlling events. That is, indeed, a misstatement.
I can’t make any sense of it. We need to just cut it off.
I agree much of what we do makes little sense at times. But 'just cut it off' is not a solution. Recall the old saying "Throw the baby out with the bathwater"? How about "Cut your nose off to spite your face"? The old saws both apply. When something isn't working, a short-term solution always seems to be; just stop it and go on to something else. Well, that's not always the best solution. Sometimes we need to evaluate what's wrong and make the necessary corrections. The goal, and the approach aren't always wrong, or at odds with our interests; just misdirected.
Please! Be aware of the ramifications should certain misguided Americans have their say in the 2008 elections. And Ron Paul can rightly be lumped with that group.”
I don’t agree with his stance on Iraq right now, but I do agree with much of his theory.
Paul will never be President. He is an honest man and a thinking man. I would like some of his ideas to influence future policy, not current policy. We need to avoid entanglements as much as possible. We need to engage the world through free trade and the battle of ideas instead of with a heavy hand.
How about one I posted above: How life returned to the streets in a showpiece city that drove out al-Qaeda.
I'd consider him more honest if he'd acknowledge his true political alliance (libertarianism; not constitutionist). As to his thinking, he's quite misguided IMHO, and I hope his influence on future policy is minor. I think we can agree to disagree.
And when others don't let us: Foxbats Did Fly over Dimona: Soviet Union may have Instigated the Six Day War (1967)?
I was stationed in Germany at the time. We were on constant alert all the while. Sometimes, events just don't let us sit back and enjoy life. What then?
Ask them to read the new Iraq Constitution and they will even change what it really says. it say’s they are now under Sharia law but when a new age republican gets through with it, it is a great democracy !Closed minds and open borders , are a disaster for our troops and future generations.
How many more nations will be given to islam ? How manys left is how many it seems ?
While we were bombing the Serbs in Croatia,Bosnia “ most of Africa ,Thailand,India,Pakistan,Indonesia,Philippines ,and many other nations were falling to islamic rule .
Anybody ever think about these facts ? Or do you just keep marching to the drum beats ?
Now we are about to elect another cowboy elitist who will probably finish us off or a liberal socialist beast who will do the same in a more in your face way .
Look. Vote for whomever you want. Just don't vote for Ron Paul and yet claim he (and you) are the true conservatives, and I am not because I don't support him.
Be honest with us and yourselves, and campaign, and discourse with others, as the true libertarians you are. That's all we ask.
OK?
“I agree much of what we do makes little sense at times. But ‘just cut it off’ is not a solution. Recall the old saying “Throw the baby out with the bathwater”? How about “Cut your nose off to spite your face”? The old saws both apply. When something isn’t working, a short-term solution always seems to be; just stop it and go on to something else. Well, that’s not always the best solution. Sometimes we need to evaluate what’s wrong and make the necessary corrections. The goal, and the approach aren’t always wrong, or at odds with our interests; just misdirected.”
We make people more dependent on corrupt central governments. We prop up dictators. We send military aid to countries that use it on their own people. We spray chemicals on their forests. We force them to pass draconian drug laws or conscript them to fight our war on drugs. We crush private markets. We use food, money, military aid and access to our markets to manipulate countries and change their laws. Some of this is done at the behest of global American corporations. We push people around and bully them. We do all of these things.
When Ron Paul says that they hate us because we are over there, he is at least partly right. We are over there. We are everywhere, in every country all over the globe. We meddle in the affairs of others.
I am not saying American is evil. We are not. I am not saying that we don’t have good intentions, because generally we do. I love this country. I am a God Fearing, Flag Waving, Country Loving American. We need to rethink our foreign policy in terms of the law of unintended consequences. If we want freedom we should engage people by example rather than by force. I think if the majority of foreign aid was cut it would actually enhance freedom and prosperity across the globe. It would also save us a pretty penny and stop fueling so much resentment.
The al-Qaeda fighters driven from Ramadi have not left Iraq, of course. Indeed, they appear to be stepping up suicide bomb attacks elsewhere.
And again:
Iraqi Shias are also worried that the new US-trained police forces of Ramadi and Anbar province could eventually metamorphose into well-trained Sunni militias; the Sunni insurgency may be fading, but the Shia-Sunni civil war rages on.
Not to mention the Shia-Shia conflicts, and the huge population displacements. I didn't see anything that supported the idea that "most of Iraq is now more peaceful than the average US city."
Is that what you want? Iraq now has to be safer than the average US city before you admit progress? Sheesh!
Try these on for size:
Iraqi Cleric Muqtada al-Sadr Suspends Mahdi Army Activities
Petraeus says Iraq "surge" working: paper
And don't come back saying 'but you people said Iraq was safer than the US. There's progress being made. And that's what's important right now.
Humans can be brainwashed in huge numbers, or Hitler never would have made it past the german border .
I was all for both wars ,until just recently when I could no longer fool myself into thinking being a patriot meant whatever our dictators said it meant. If they were serious about going after the enemy , mecca or medina would not be there today . They destroy our monument we return the favor , plain and simple . of course Halburtin, Locheed and Blackwater and all the democrat and republican stocks would have lost some huge profits, but so be it . Now they are after more of my family members in this coming draft ,this time my granddaughters .
a) Hunker down, fortify the fort and wait for the attack.
b) Pursue the enemy before they can attack.
There is the million dollar point right there in a nut shell, the reason that Ron Paul and those who share his views have no business in a position of power at this time.
Let's look again:
a) Hunker down, fortify the fort and wait for the attack.
Reactionary but sometimes excellent stance, very effective through out history at times, when there were cannon and muskets and swords, say all the way up to 1945...
b) Pursue the enemy before they can attack.
Proactive, the only form of defense in an age where the technology to turn the fort into its component molecules roasted to a balmy 10,000 degrees without warning exists and has recklessly become spread to the nut jobs who like the idea of seeing their god after making him pleased with our demise.
Gee, now that Iran is shelling Iraq and has graciously "slowed" enrichment (very nice of them) we can come on home now, hole up and say "Please oh please Mr. Muslim man sir, don't hurt us, we will leave you alone, and if you want we can send some money for the moon god to make peace...
Riiiight...
Ask your physician about Haldol.
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