The People Must Demand The Fair Tax

GOPUSA ^ | August 28, 2007 | By Doug Patton

[Your Nightmare]

Wasn’t being rude. It’s early and I don’t understand.

[robertpaulsen]

"The studies show that there will actually be MORE money going to Washington, what with the illegals, drug monies, (who wont get a offset prebate and WILL pay taxes, finally, on every dime they spend."

Aren't those taxes already "built in" to the products today? The Fair Tax simply makes them visible.

So we're already collecting those taxes.

[robertpaulsen]

"It would all get rolled up and be included in Mr. Wills mortgage anyway"

And if Mr. Will defaults? How does the bank recoup the $300,000 already paid to the IRS?

[Bigun]

Sorry but what we have today started as a “flat” tax and, besides that, anything that involves the word “income” is unacceptable as it taxes the exact WRONG end of the spectrum!

[robertpaulsen]

"by the elimination of income taxes from a homebuyer's paycheck."

So, the Fair Tax is going to pass on tax savings to the employee and increase his take-home pay.

"and those new homes will be built with materials that cost less because the manufacturers will no longer need to pass on federal taxes into the cost structure"

And you're also going to use the tax savings to reduce the price of the house? Nice try.

It's true that the builder of the home no longer forwards payroll deduction or employee FICA to the federal government -- he can use that money to A) lower the price of his product or B) give it to the employee.

Not both.

[robertpaulsen]

"Imagine paying the same price for something but having your entire paycheck to buy it."

AND getting $500/month in a prebate! AND a chicken in every pot!

I'm sorry. But imagining "paying the same price for something but having your entire paycheck to buy it" will be all that we do. If the author will lie about something this simple, how can he (or others) be expected to be trusted on any other point?

Do any Fair Tax supporters agree ith the author's statement? Where are the cries to "READ THE FAIR TAX PROPOSAL"?

[robertpaulsen]

"And then there are the billions of dollars that flow untaxed through our economy today: drug dealers, prostitutes, pornographers, foreign tourists. Imagine how much revenue could be raised simply by taxing the things those people consume."

When drug dealers, prostitutes, pornographers, and foreign tourists buy something today, they pay taxes (corporate, employee withholding, FICA, etc.) that are contained and hidden in the purchase price. The Fair Tax pulls them out and makes them visible.

What an illegal, for example, doesn't pay today is income tax. BUT, if we could somehow force him to pay that, he'd simply raise the price he charges for his service, meaning those who use his service (ie., us) would end up paying his tax for him.

Under the Fair Tax, the situation is similar. Let's see a show of hands of everyone who thinks the drug dealer will add the Fair Tax to the price of cocaine and pass that money on to the IRS. Ergo, there will still be cheaters.

[Man50D]

Do you honestly believe Congress, which continuously passes complex laws with loop holes for "contributors" (read bribers, conflict of interest etc) will do away with the legal profession's full employment guarantees? If the legal profession were about right and wrong and correcting injustice, it should be Socialized.

By your line if thinking there is no sense passing anymore legislation because the fix is in by all the lawyers in Congress. It is this defeatist attitude that has allowed to some extent and would continue to allow the select few who run the government to do so with impunity. The recent uproar by the people against passing legislation granting amnesty to illegal immigrants should be an example for your short memory of the power people have over Congress. Fair Tax supporters realize politicians don't lead, they follow. Americans For Fair Taxation have been applying increasing pressure on those politicians to either support the Fair Tax or be prepared to lose their jobs. The same grassroots effort has been gaining significant momentum with The Fair Tax and will continue.

With respect to the "Fair Tax",

1. ... and the entity that ensures that the Fair Tax is collected and will be paid is called...?????

You still haven't bothered to read the bill. As I have stated in previous posts the already existing Treasury Department will enforce tax collection.

2. Congress passes the tax laws. IRS implements them. Will Congress be abolished?

You can remain in a state of denial if you choose but the fact remains once The Fair Tax is passes it will become law, as any legislation that passes, and therefore per the section I quoted you in my previous post to you will cut off funding to the IRS after January 1, 2011.

3. IRS is a "straw man" for Congress to beat up as the "bad guy". Even when IRS is correct, Congress forces them to confess to errors or Congress keeps going etc

4... and who enforces Title 26 with God only knows how many sections,and what will they be called? All the 'old" law violations will be thrown out?

The IRS is the "badman" as you state. It is used by Congress more as a tool to punish and control the people than to merely collect taxes.

5. Congress is almost entirely ALL lawyers. The more complex the law the more lawyers are needed. Dealing with IRS requires a Lawyer(s) or an Accountant. All tax appeals to tax court (more Lawyers posing as judges) require a Lawyer - ad nauseum.

Then why don't you do sometning about it if you're so disgusted with the whole process instead of simply complaining? You rail against the Fair Tax but you don't offer any prorposals of your own to change the system! It is this very type of attitude that has incrementally ceded the people's power to Congress over many decades and caused the incresing socialism in this country. Washington would never have corssed the Delaware with your defeatist attitude.

[MrB]

“It is used by Congress more as a tool to punish and control the people than to merely collect taxes. “

Not just Congress, the Clintons used it rather effectively as well.

[Man50D]

Somebody can’t disagree with you without you asking a stupid question of them?

You stated:"If you think this Fair Tax would remain fair with our corrupt politicians you haven’t learned much about our government.

When somebody makes the following ridiculous general statement as if the people have no control over those they elect then it is reasonable to ask why do you bother staying here? If you're going to disagree try offering a potential solution to the problem instead of summarily dismissing other's attempts with such a defeatist attitude.

[xcamel]

Like I said before, the "economic lifespan" of these people is so short, their "value" is insignificant to the tax system as a whole. It is not now, nor has it ever been about taxation, or the method of collection -- it is the out of control spending.

[Man50D]

No higher income people spend a much smaller percentage of their income on consumables. Your premise is flawed.

The Fair Tax rate will be applied to amount of dollars spent. People with higher incomes spend a greater amount of dollars than those with lower incomes therefore the amount of dollars collected by a consumption tax will be greater. Your premise is flawed.

[Filo]

See # 37 at:

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_faq

37. Could we end up with both the FairTax and an income tax?

No current supporter of the FairTax would support the FairTax unless the entire income tax is repealed. Moreover, concurrent with the repeal of the income tax, a constitutional amendment repealing the 16th Amendment and prohibiting an income tax will be pushed through Congress for ratification by the states (filed as HJR 16 in the 109th Congress).

Read what I've written. It's actually fairly simple: Implement Fair Tax then repeal 16th - Bad!

Repeal 16th as a condition of implementing Fair Tax - Good.

I don't and won't trust the government, and those who support the fair tax in Congress are part of the government, to do right by the American people unless they are forced to.

[Hostage]

Just another know-it-all.

You think the builder cannot return the employee’s FICA contribution to the employer and retain the employer’s FICA contribution to lower costs?

You think the federal business income tax elimination can’t be used to lower costs?

You think the builder’s suppliers won’t pass on similar savings that will lower the builder’s costs?

I can see you haven’t given the FairTax the thought that it deserves.

Just another know-it-all ready to open mouth before engaging brain.

[lucysmom]

First, the NRST (National Retail Sales Tax under the FairTax legislation) can be financed as part of the mortgage. The increase in monthly payments is more than offset by the elimination of income taxes from a homebuyer's paycheck.

Which means the home buyer would have more to finance, more interest to pay, and with 30% added to the cost of loan service, more tax to pay.

Second, the NRST is applied only to new homes and those new homes will be built with materials that cost less because the manufacturers will no longer need to pass on federal taxes into the cost structure.

So every US worker who is involved in the production of building materials will not get a 100% of his paycheck?

How much of our building supplies are imported?

The key point to keep in mind is the FairTax is a replacement tax, not a tax on a tax. It replaces all the federal taxes that are embedded in pricing now. The embedded taxes are hidden. But they will be eliminated and then replaced by the visible FairTax.

Are you having trouble with sentence structure again?

The FairTax does not replace all "embedded" taxes.

Oh, wait, my bad - certain "hidden" taxes like the federal gas tax are "very visible". Which reminds me, how much did your wife pay in the very visible federal gas tax last year?

The FairTax on the federal gas tax would add about 5.5 cents per gallon.

[robertpaulsen]

"it is the out of control spending."

I agree. Raising the same amount of money "a more fair way" or "a better way" or "a less painful way" is not the solution.

[lucysmom]

My question to you is why you Doom and Gloom Chicken Little FairTaxers with all your talk of slavery...

"To some, freedom means the opportunity to do what they want to do; to most it means not to do what they do not want to do. It is perhaps true that those who can grow will feel free under any condition." Eric Hoffer

It is doubtful that the FairTax whiners will feel free under any circumstances because there will always be circumstance to be under.

[Wolfie]

“Proposing an amendment” to repeal the 16th doesn’t repeal it. What if the amendment doesn’t pass Congress? What if the States don’t ratify?

[Hostage]

What no smart alec and smug response to Post #92?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1887973/posts?page=92#92

Figures given your schtick and arrogance that you wouldn’t respond.

Kotlikoff’s estimate was 23.82%! A difference of 0.82%!

Under Revenue ‘Neutrality’:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax

Yeah, an estimate with a difference of less than one percent is something you omit from your posting because you know it is insignificant, just as your postings on the FairTax are insignificant. And that estimate was for year 2007. Any chance government budgeted revenues were increased from 2005 to 2007? You didn’t bother to mention that did you?

Why can’t you be straight with facts? Why the constant obfuscation? You hate the FairTax so much you will pull out all stops to confuse people about it.

This is not the first time you have omitted factual details to create an illusion of negatism about the FairTax.

[Suzy Quzy]

Idiocy.....the Fair Tax would DESTROY RETAIL!! NO ONE will pay 24% tax on furniture, jewelry, etc.......a FLAT TAX is the best way to go.