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To: Delacon
You see, all of your yammering is about governmental power. The Declaration stated that the SEAT of power is "THE PEOPLE" and that governments are created by consent only. It further states that governments are endowed with "just" powers (just means limited)in order to secure life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. What you propose is that the government has to say it is okay for a State or party to leave a "voluntary" union. That is where your assertions go astray. The Founders never intended for the Federal government to be all powerful, hence they put the Bill of Rights on the Constitution, Read Amendment 9 and 10. Show me where it states the government has all power.

By the way, Article 5 of the Constitution says nothing about state sovereignty or anything along the lines of your last post.

1,028 posted on 09/22/2007 10:51:23 AM PDT by Colt .45 (Navy Veteran - Thermo-Nuclear Landscapers Inc. "Need a change of scenery? We deliver!")
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To: Colt .45

“You see, all of your yammering is about governmental power”.

Well all of this is about governmental power. States versus federal. Or more accurately the pov of some that the constitution gives states more governmental power than they actually have. BTW the constitution TELLS states that they have to have republican governments otherwise your state government could be a dictatorship. You take for granted that the constitution limits federal powers when it also limits state powers. THE PEOPLE(all the people) are defended against both.

“The Declaration stated that the SEAT of power is “THE PEOPLE” and that governments are created by consent only.”

Again. THE PEOPLE. Not the peoples of the various states. The people of the WHOLE union. The Articles of Confederation AND PERPETUAL UNION include “perpetual union” in its title. When that didn’t work out they made the constitution(in order to increase federal power) which refers to “a more perfect union”. That means a more perfect perpetual union. That means forever unless all of the people dissolve it.

“It further states that governments are endowed with “just” powers (just means limited)in order to secure life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”

I have no argument with that. It limits state powers. All laws should be just whether passed by the states or the federal government. The constituton demands that states have republican forms of government. Wouldn’t you agree that runs against your position that states should be allowed to do whatever they want? That its merely a treaty or compact? Nonsense. The constitution was designed to protect THE PEOPLE from both the federal and state governments. That means we are ALL in this together.

” What you propose is that the government has to say it is okay for a State or party to leave a “voluntary” union.”

You seem to think that I think that there should only be a federal government or that states should be subservient to it. I don’t. I think that BOTH should be subservient to THE PEOPLE. Our nation. The constitution allows for the people to let a state or states leave the union voluntarily but it must come from all the people of the nation.

“The Founders never intended for the Federal government to be all powerful, hence they put the Bill of Rights on the Constitution, Read Amendment 9 and 10. Show me where it states the government has all power.”

You keep saying “the government”. Which government are you refering to? The Founders also never intended the state governments to be all powerful. They tried that with the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union. The founders improved on it. Amendment 10 points out that there are 3 players. The federal, the states and THE PEOPLE.


1,029 posted on 09/22/2007 11:42:46 AM PDT by Delacon (When in doubt, ask a liberal and do the opposite.)
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