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To: sandude
Anyone can get access to the church archive.

Do you stake you reputation on that? Will Bagley is a non-mormon author that has studied extensively on the Mountain Meadows Massacre and has published this most comprehensive book to date Blood of the Prophets. Was he given free access to the archives?

Having said that, the real impetus of your post is that you don't trust LDS scholars. It goes to the common theme in many anti Mormon posters attitude that anyone who is a believing member is either stupid or dishonest.

Your bigotry against ex-mormons is very readily apparent to outsiders reading your post. Outsiders don't fear, nor label "anti-Mormons." That term is used to keep believing members of the LDS Church from reading any material that might not show them in a good light. So thanks for the compliment even though you didn't mean for your comment to be one.

133 posted on 08/24/2007 9:37:49 AM PDT by colorcountry (Silence isn't always golden.....Sometimes it's just yellow!)
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To: colorcountry
Do you stake you reputation on that?...Was he given free access to the archives?

I was only providing the link showing the rules involved to get access to the archives. I found nothing there to indicate that a researcher couldn't get access to the records. I will go to the link you provided and read what Will Bagley has to say on the subject.

Your bigotry against ex-mormons is very readily apparent to outsiders reading your post.

I think bigoted is way too strong a term. I do have a problem with those who refuse to acknowledge that there is more than one side to the story. I would label those people on either the pro or con side of the issue as "closed minded". It seemed from your post that you would not accept the forthcoming book because it is being written by LDS historians. What is your opinion of LDS scholarship?

Outsiders don't fear, nor label "anti-Mormons." That term is used to keep believing members of the LDS Church from reading any material that might not show them in a good light.

What label should I use for those who attack the church on a regular basis here? It is just a label that I use without passion. My desire is for a balanced and honest telling of Mormon history. I've stated many times that one sided histories, either pro or con, are of no use when trying to get to the truth of the matter at hand. In my initial post on this thread I expressed my hope that the upcoming book on MMM would be honest and definitive. I feel this would help heal the wounds of this tragic event.

So thanks for the compliment even though you didn't mean for your comment to be one.

I wasn't trying to upset you. I was hoping for a measured response.

138 posted on 08/24/2007 10:22:00 AM PDT by sandude
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To: colorcountry
Will Bagley is a non-mormon author that has studied extensively on the Mountain Meadows Massacre and has published this most comprehensive book to date Blood of the Prophets. Was he given free access to the archives?

Here is his statement on your question of access to the churches archives.

I must say that LDS Archives was amazingly open with me, and they did provide me with any number of wonderful sources, and the professional staff was excellent. And the professional staff is all now engaged in researching the Mountain Meadows Massacre, at enormous expense.

He then went on to say this.

Mormon archives do contain a lot of "embarrassing information", but they were long ago purged---I've been informed, and I've never seen his journal, but Andrew Jenson, long-time assistant church historian, describes "consigning documents to the flames" because they were so embarrassing.

So he praises the openness of the Archives and then in almost the next breath accuses the church of destroying damaging information. He admits that he never actually saw Andrew Jenson's statement regarding this destruction but has chosen to believe that it happened based on someone elses telling.

He also had this to say in the opening of his address.

But I'd also like to address the charges that I'm an anti-Mormon. They're preposterous, because I am still a Mormon. I'm a heritage Mormon, and I have a great-great-grandfather, grandfathers and grandmothers on all sides, who crossed the plains, most of them before the railroad, and I'm very proud of that heritage, and very proud of the Mormon people.

That said, I've never believed the theology since I was old enough to think about it. (audience laughter) But at the same time, I don't hold any grudges. I have many dear Mormon friends, and I do not believe that this book will take anyone's testimony away from them. Although I do believe that the book the church is putting out might well shake---might well lose the church any number of people.

It sounds as though Will believes that the coming history will provide a more illuminating history. As I said before I hope that the church is totally forthcoming in this.

230 posted on 08/24/2007 12:38:13 PM PDT by sandude
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To: colorcountry; sandude
Anyone can get access to the church archive.

Was he given free access to the archives?


There is a BIG difference between Access and free access.

Sandy Burglar had free access, and since Mark Hoffman such access to the church archives has been hard to come by for anyone not employed there.
243 posted on 08/24/2007 1:09:06 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: colorcountry

as for me I would not give bias people access!

Why berate those for not being foolish!

let thet devil fine his own food!


251 posted on 08/24/2007 1:31:30 PM PDT by restornu (Teach them correct principals and let them govern themselves ~ Joseph Smith)
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