Here are the highlights:
; )
Posted on 08/19/2007 11:22:00 PM PDT by freedom44
The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition slavery
References to it appear in the ancient Babylonian code of Hammurabi. Its form and nature varied greatly in ancient society. It seems to have been common in the Tigris-Euphrates civilizations and in ancient Persia.
1. The code of Hammurabi was as you said Babylonian, not Persian. Within the Persian Empire the local laws and costums remained largely in place. The Babylonian law would have continued in Babylon, but certainly not in all of the Empire. At least there is no reason to my knowledge to assume that.
2.
I am surprised why you trust an Islamist website for
historical source. They are the least someone would
trust on anything. I’m sure the Islamists have also a lot of things to say about Jews, Christians and the West.
I doubt you would agree with their views.
This is SPENTAAAAA Productions!
I am surprised why you trust an Islamist website for historical source.
I'm not "trusting" them, I'm merely passing on their own beliefs. But if anyone knows about slavery they should, don't you think?
Tell me what sources you would trust and I'll see what I can dig up.
Here are the highlights:
; )
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"Try the veal..."
But if anyone knows about slavery they should, don't you think?
Since they are the masters of slavery, I am sure they have the fewest credibility. I can't get into your logic. That's the same as asking a Cuban Communist to tell you about American healthcare.
Tell me what sources you would trust and I'll see what I can dig up.
Any scholastic, scientific proof. If you are keen on showing "they admit it" it would have to be from ancient Persian sources, or third ancient sources. Note, I am not denying there could have been slavery (paid or unpaid) in Persia. I only vehemently disagree with your methodology of proving it. Babylonian law doesn't apply to Persia, and a claim from an Islamist website doesn't equate an ancient Persian claim, as you insinuate.
Would you agree that Iran was once Sumer?
No. Because it’s not the case. Sumerians were not Iranian. The Sumerians were in Mesopotamia (Iraq) and at an way earlier date. The Persians came much later and at an totally different location (Iranian plateau). The Persians entered Mesopotamia first after defeating the Babylonians. There were the Elamites (related to Iranians) who existed next to Sumer and interacted with them. But they weren’t the Persians we’re talking about and Sumer never controlled what is Iran or Persia, except some city states at the Gulf.
The whole region (which was once Sumerian, Assyrian, Babylonian etc.) became part of the Persian empire in the 6th-5th century b.C.
So you only consider the land of the Medes and Persians to be ancient Iran?
(Ah... I posted my last comment without finishing it.)
If one look at the “Cylinder of Cyrus” where the rights of the Persian Empire were declared, it clearly abolishes slavery. This becomes more than evident with the liberation of the Israelites from Babylonian Slavery by the Persians, as evidenced by the Bible. Scholastic works only attest that defeated enemy armies were used for labour in captivity.
Yes. That's ancient Iran were the Achameanid Dynasty came from... and were after all talking about Achameanid Persia. There were proto-Iranian people in what is today Iran before (Elamites in Southern Iran) but that's not the Persians we are dealing with. The giant Persian Empire had Iran at it's core, but as you know consisted of the conquered countries.
Anicent Greece (particularly Sparta) had many shortcomings that are largely white-washed these days, but it also had strong points. Ancient Persia was also the same ....it had a good number of short-comings, but it also had a wealth of positives (although perception of Persia is the inverse of that of Sparta ...i.e. Persia was a debauchery of immorality and corruption, when in many ways that is more true of Greek civilization than Persian).
Anyways, a few points remain. Ancient civilizations all had their strong points and their dregs, and hence there was no 'perfect' ancient civilization and there was none that was useless. Rome may have totally vanquished Carthage, and had Carthage instead have vanquished Rome there is a great chance that the world would have been different. As you so correctly put it, the world might have been better or might have been worse, but it WOULD HAVE BEEN different. Same thing about Persia vs Greece ....a different winner may have led to a better/worse world, but one thing that is for certain is that Western culture would have either been different/assimilated/non-existent. And that which would have taken its place may have been a maelstrom of malevolence, or it could have been more or less an approximation of what Western civilization is (and stands for) today, or it might actually have been better (people automatically equate ancient Persia with current Iran ....as different as night and day).
Anyways, Greece won the battle, Persia lost the war, and the world is as it is now. Which, when you look at it, could have been a hell lot worse ....thus there is nothing to complain about. No need to dream of what mgiht have been, particularly when there is a good chance it might have been worse than what actually is (or better ...that is a debate better left to philosophers).
Although I do find it interesting how today Sparta is seen as a bastion of democracy and freedom. Actually Sparta was more akin to what the Soviet Union espoused itself as being ....democracy was more along the lines of what Athens was. Anyways, I guess the historically important fact is that Sparta (and Greece as a whole) stood up against a vastly superior force, and that it took a whole lot of bravery against the odds to do so, and by doing so they changed the entire history of the world from that inception point. furthermore, whatever political leanings Sparta may have had, they were still one of the bravest and most stringent military societies on Earth, and they were resilient and had fortitude in their outlook and timbre (the South African Zulu under Shaka were similar in orientation, but Assegai is no solution to British rifles). Again, that is praiseworthy. As for Persia, they had many developments (and Zoroastroanism is by far different from Islam, particularly the brand that people like Ahmadenijad use to fuel their demagogue-esque wiles). It was a rich society, but it fell.
Bottom line. Greece won. Persia lost. And we are the better for it (unless someone with a time-machine and a howitzer is willing to go back in time, raze down the Greeks with shell-fire, and then wait a couple thousand years to see how the world would have turned out if the Persians won. The fact that we can never tell means one thing ....we are better off that the Greeks won).
...Achaemenes was the first "king" of "Persia", right?
(Just getting on track here so bear with me.)
The story of the 300 is blatant propaganda? Of course it is! Ever look through a high school history book? They’re full of nationalistic propaganda. It’s the way people are.
“Freedom” is about more than slavery. There is the personal freedom that is highlighted by Mr. Broad, and there is National freedom. Both are important.
Persia - and Asian country - invaded Europe. Few countries (or city states) welcome a foreign invader. Few countries welcome a foreign country dictating their foreign policy or demanding tribute.
The first Persian King (real king of an united Persia) was Cyrus. Before him there were several competing kingdoms and tribes. Achamenes is likely only a mythic figure.
He was wrongfully accused of smuggling washing machine timers for use in improvised explosive devices in a taxi he was riding in to Baghdad.
From wikipedia. Very convoluted and unclear sentence. Hard to tell if there were both timers and IEDs in the taxi. Commas are our friends. Or just rewrite the whole sentence. But what WAS he doing with the timers?
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