Romney wins Illinois GOP straw poll; Thompson 2nd, Ron Paul 3rd

Marion Daily Republican ^ | Friday, August 17, 2007 12:01 PM CDT | Adriana Colindres

[ninenot]

Heh.

Romney had to purchase 10 busses of supporters to come up with that “vote.”

I note that Kjellander (excoriated for his Illinois-Democrat-style ‘leadership’ by Roeser) then attempts to make a sandwich out of 1 piece of bread by declaring that this was a “victory” for Romney.

Romney’s dead meat walking, but he’ll walk for quite a while yet. Thompson, Rudy, and Huckabee (coming up very fast) will slug it out, and Rudy v. Thompson will be the finalists.

[ninenot]

Oh, puleeze!

I don’t have a dog in Ron Paul fight. Some of what he says is fine, some is ...wierd.

But he’s not getting the Party’s nomination. No way, no how.

So what’s the “success” of which you speak?

[ninenot]

FWIW, there's plenty of debate available on the topic of Iraq.

There's also plenty of vacuum (of specific knowledge.)

The Just War Theory does not allow for "pre-emptive war," but:

A contemporary view of just cause was expressed in 1993 when the US Catholic Conference said: "Force may be used only to correct a grave, public evil, i.e., aggression or massive violation of the basic human rights of whole populations." Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_War

On that alone, the US had reason to take out Saddam.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a war enthusiast, and BlackElk and I have had several, ah, vigorous discussions on the matter.

I'm still not convinced that "Planting Democracy" is a rational dream for Iraq, much less for the rest of the Earth.

BTW, on the rest of the clauses (proper authority, last resort, proportionality) I don't think there's any question at all.

[BlackElk]

Christendom is no longer a method of government as it was in 1492 Spain shortly after Ferdinand and Isabella drove out most of the Muslims. It is most unfortunate that the Inquisition drove the Jews from Spain and made judgments as to others known as Moranos leading to their executions and attainder. The Moranos had been baptized Catholic but continued to be practicing Jews privately or so the allegations went.

I have had the privilege of knowing one Morano who died as a successful Connecticut real estate investor about a decade ago and was quite conversant with who his ancestors were and what happened to them. He was a proudly practicing Jew whose ancestors had been baptized. I feel sure that there are numerous others like him. He came in from Mexico and was a valued member of the New Haven area business community.

The 1400s and the 2000s differ to some degree, not in theological truth but in theories of governance. If you happen to be a member of the Southern Baptist Convention, you must be furious at your leadershp for allying politically with mine. Too bad because Western Civilization deserves defense from Islamofascism though you and paleoPaulie think otherwise.

Don John of Austria, a Roman Catholic, defeated the much larger Islamic Navy at Lepanto and Jan Sobieski of Lithuania by way of Poland, and a Roman Catholic, rode to the defense of Vienna and lifted the Islamic siege meant to establish a new Islamic strategic beachhead on the European mainland. Sobieski's conquest of the Islamointruders at Vienna occurred on, ummmm, 9/11/1683. Coincidence???? Islamoloonies (Paulie's foreign buddies) NEFER forget significant dates in history. There was no Israel and not even a United States in 1683 either. Maybe those Muzzies who besieged Vienna were only responding to the nerve of Catholic Austria for building Vienna right in the path of the Muzzies intended route to conquer Europe. According to the paleo view of historical fantasy exhibited by paleoPaulie and other peacecreeps, that probably seems reasonable. To rational people OTOH, .......

I also don't give a rat's patoot whether the founders (actually primarily Washington) were obsessed with isolationism in the relative safety of 1775-1800. If the pope's infallibility is strictly limited, politicians have none at all.

I seem to remember that YOUR Church was founded by Roger Williams in the colonial era here. You may well have a different theory and I may be wrong but one thing is for sure: Your forebears did nothing whatsoever as to "His Church" since yours did not exist until after Luther was long gone.

There is a song of the Party of the Right of the Yale Political Union called Torquemada's Band (to the tune of McNamara's Band. The POR is relly not a Catholic institution, has many members who are agnostics and atheists, some Hindus, many Jews, many Protestants (who tend to stop standing and sit on the floor during the recitation of many of the names of catholic monarchs of Britain. The refrain is: "The auto da fe is God's chosen way to purge sin from the land. Another soul to heaven from Torquemada's Band!"

You also present an entirely one-sided story on Spanish Catolics and the Jews. During WWII, Francisco Franco, El Caudillo, the Catholic victor against the communists and anarchists in the Spanish Civil War, facilitated the escape from Europe through Spain and then through Spanish Morocco of large numbers of Jews from places like Hungary and Central Europe. Franco told Hitler that there would be a release of Spanish ancestry Jews from the concentration camps or there would be American air bases in pain because Spain had an applicable law of return that applied to the descendants of the expelled of 1492. What was the World Council of Churches doing while 6 million Jews died and even the New York Times (not a noted Catholic paper) editorialized in 1942 at Christmastime that the sole remaining voice of major resistance to the Nazis was Pius XII who was recognized by Israel at his death as a tzadhik, a righteous man, who saved more than 800,000 Jews from the camps?

Protestantism and Western Civilization need fewer cowardly pipsqueaks like paleoPaulie and a lot more Protestant heroes like Dietrich Bonhoeffer and the ten Booms. Noting current trends in Christianity, we may confidently expect those Protestant heroes to emerge and they may expect solidarity from their Catholic brothers and sisters, if not on each detail of theology, certainly on the broad defense of our mutual civilization. Richard Land, Jerry Falwell, and Chuck Colson will be regarded as prophets before their time and a source of justifiable pride to reformed Christians.

PaleoPaulie will be remembered, if at all, as a temporary blip on history's radar and of no real significance.

I will leave the remainder of your Jack Chick synopses to speak for you and for themselves. Your ignorance is breathtaking.

[BlackElk]

That would be a safe bet.

[redgolum]

Indeed.

The officials at the Vatican obviously don’t have the inner details that the US did. How could they? They could only call them as they see them, in an advisory position.

Ron Paul’s idea of using pirates and merc’s to hunt down terrorists is a nice bit of fancy, but isn’t by any stretch of the imagination “just war”.

[Petronski]

Bravissimo!

[redgolum]

If I remember right (and I am open to correction) St. Augustine said that a “Just War” could be started if there was a clear danger or to right a grievous wrong.

In other words, if the Nazi’s had not invaded Poland but fired up the ovens anyway, it could be a cause for a first strike “just war”.

But it has been a year or so since I last read “City of God”.

[George W. Bush]

Christendom is no longer a method of government as it was in 1492 Spain shortly after Ferdinand and Isabella drove out most of the Muslims.

I know. What a tragedy, eh?

It is most unfortunate that the Inquisition drove the Jews from Spain and made judgments as to others known as Moranos leading to their executions and attainder.

Unfortunate, yes. Other words would be genocidal religious persecution from the ignorant and illiterate hierarchy of a fallen church, mired in its superstitious beliefs and relics of a dark age which they themselves caused to befall the West. But that is just another opinion, I suppose.

If you happen to be a member of the Southern Baptist Convention, you must be furious at your leadershp for allying politically with mine.

The leaders of any Baptist church are its elders/deacons, in conjunction with its pastor and as supported by its voting membership. The Convention had better stick to what we all believe in or they'll find out once again why we're called Baptists. And they are on the edge of the cliff already. Personally, I think it's time to purge them and they can go join up with Jimmuh and the apostate Baptists. Rick Warren is a perfect example of the modern apostate Baptist, following in the footsteps of the pope-praising ring-kissing Billy Graham who will soon discover his own grave errors as a false shepherd and Rome's own little Judas goat. However, he has raised a fine son, Franklin, who is obedient to scripture and has proven fearless in his preaching and public positions, a case in point of the history of those few sons who greatly exceeded their esteemed fathers.

Don John of Austria, a Roman Catholic, defeated the much larger Islamic Navy at Lepanto and Jan Sobieski of Lithuania by way of Poland...

You fail entirely to account for their nationalism and their own properly selfish notions about their own people's security. Certainly, they were Catholics. But then, people like you would have killed them if they were anything else, wouldn't you? You defend an institution that exterminated anything other than its own narrow and superstitious dogmas. That was, BTW, a rhetorical question as history has already answered on Rome's true attitude toward human dignity and civil rights.

I also don't give a rat's patoot whether the founders (actually primarily Washington) were obsessed with isolationism in the relative safety of 1775-1800. If the pope's infallibility is strictly limited, politicians have none at all.

We are well aware of your true sentiments toward the Founders and the Republic they established.

I seem to remember that YOUR Church was founded by Roger Williams in the colonial era here.

Then I would conclude you are indeed poorly informed or senile.

There is a song of the Party of the Right of the Yale Political Union called Torquemada's Band... "The auto da fe is God's chosen way to purge sin from the land. Another soul to heaven from Torquemada's Band!"

You just can't help yourself, can you?

You also present an entirely one-sided story on Spanish Catolics and the Jews.

No, I do not. You are seeking to excuse those atrocities committed by the princes of your Dark Ages religion in its ongoing masquerade of the true church of Jesus Christ and against the free will, the dignity, the civil rights and the humanity of the Jews of Spain and many ordinary Christians throughout Europe throughout the first 1500 years of the Christian era. That some later ruler of Spain might have some pinprick of conscience over the fate of Jews at the hands of another totalitarian state headed by yet another baptized Catholic (Hitler of Germany) hardly excuses earlier systematic torture and massacres perpetrated by your church in Spain.

Say what you will of us Baptists but we do not have the blood of millions upon our hands. We are not and have never been the oppressors of human dignity and liberty.

Your ignorance is breathtaking.

And your duplicity is shameless.

[Tax-chick]

Nobody puts words together quite like BlackElk.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Most of the Anti-Paul posts seen here are just about as reasonable as Rutherford's reaction.

Yeah, I noticed that the Paul bashers screech just as loud and incoherently as the folks they claim are doing it.

I wonder who are the real kooks?

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Ron Paul will take the Republican Party in the wrong direction.

Yeah, because the GOP is afraid of Constitutional principles and traditional values. That's garlic to Dracula.

We need a strong President with the necessary powers to eliminate the threat of Islamofascism.

Under Paul, they'll eliminate each other and stew in their own juices and leave us the Hell alone.

Ron Paul is a weak girlyman who is just going to leave our country open to attack.

The "weak girlyman" you cite is an Air Force Captain who didn't complain or hide like Rudy & Romney did when drafted and supports militarized borders.

I’d rather vote for Obama or Hillary than this Ron Paul fellow.

Thanks for outing yourself as a liberal.

Ron Paul thinks he knows more about economics and foreign policy than the experts who have spent their whole lives studying such issues.

He knows more than most elected officials, that's for damn sure.

He should just shut up and get back to delivering babies.

So you don't appreciate Dr. Paul's committment to pro-life values. How nice.

I also applaud Dan Rutherford for sticking his boot in the faces of the supporters of the surrendermonkeys.

Yeah, you would support goons trying to quash free speech of Paul's supporters.

They are just one step away from being traitors to our commander-in-chief in my view.

The only traitors are most members of the Republican Party who'll bend over for the Dims and internationalists in a New York minute.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Nobody puts words together quite like BlackElk.

My seven-year old daughter has better grammar and sentence structure than this clown.

And yeah, I am pinging you, homeboy.

[Tax-chick]

You seem upset. I’m sorry.

I have a 7-year-old daughter, too. They’re cute.

[JTN]

Yeah, I noticed that the Paul bashers screech just as loud and incoherently as the folks they claim are doing it.

It's desperation. They keep trying to find something really nasty to pin on him, but there's just nothing there, so you end up with claims that he's a truther because he talked to someone from a truther group, instead of kicking him right in the nuts. When his flat out denials of trutherism are posted, they then resort to claiming he must be a closet truther.

There's no discussion of reality with these people. They always attack him with insinuation, character assassination, and guilt by association. The only things missing from their posts are facts.

[Martins kid]

Your excessive pasteing of that huge Paul statement is silly. You know we can all cut and paste War and Peace if we want to.

[Martins kid]

Funny how no one is talking about how Ron Paul got beat by Fred who hasn’t even declared yet. All the Paulisitinians are running around patting themselves on the back and a guy who has not even declared beat them. That is so funny.

[TheLion]

My cat will get elected before Ron Paul! Great job by Romney....and you posted this great success by Romney to plug Ron Paul?

[BlackElk]

I think you have made your bigotry sufficiently clear now for people of good will to draw accurate conclusions. Differences as to religious dogmas are one thing. Your posts go well beyond that. You are even attacking Billy Graham. Truly remarkable. I am betting that you will soon enough be disillusioned with Franklin Graham as well whatever you may say in the opportunism of the moment.

I think that Don John and Jan Sobieski were defending Christian (and mostly Catholic Europe) from the Islamic navy at Lepanto which has ever since occupied Davy Jones Locker) and in lifting the siege of Vienna. They were killing non-Catholic (and antiChristian) invaders of Christian Europe known as Muslims. Neither Martin Luther nor Jean Cauvin nor Zwingli nor anyone like them would have fared any better at the hands of those Islamic forces than would any pope, cardinal, bishop or priest or Catholic in the pews.

Now the kneejerk reaction of antiCatholic bigots is to blame the Church founded by Jesus Christ Himself and guaranteed by Him, first last and always in matters religious. But the knee-jerk reaction of paleos is always to genuflect to the enemies of America and the West and plead for profit and trade in the naive hope that paleoPaulie and the surrender monkeys might be right and, of course, to blame America first, last and always. This must be quite the dilemma for that tiny minority of paleos who are also antiCatholic bigots. Tom Fleming and Chris Check of the Rockford Institute are quite Catholic, however wrong they may be politically. Likewise Patrick J. Buchanan. Likewise, whaever his errors, Joseph Sobran. Likewise, Llewellyn Rockwell. An already miniature movement of paleos would be truly bereft without its Catholics.

Given that Catholics are about 28% of the population (probably not counting many of the undocumented), that leftist atheists and agnostics are as much as 10%; that Jews (never favorites of paleowhatevers) are about 3%; that decidedly non-paleo blacks are about 12%; that Hispanics of whatever religion are a lot more likely to be warriors than to be peacecreeps (but really how high a percentage of them is necessary to guarantee paleoPaulie's and paleowhatevers' guaranteed destruction?) and that there are also armies of feminazis and envirowhackos and communists and socialists and leftwing college students and faculty and gummint skewel teachers' union types and those still temporarily mesmerized and brain laundered by them, and numerous other antiAmerican groups, and given the obvious hatred of paleowhatevers for whatever is actually conservative, the poltical strategizers of the paleowhatever movement must resemble nothing more closely than the bar scene in the first Star Wars movie.

Do you imagine in your wildest delusions that there will ever be a conservative political ascendancy without substantial Catholic support??? It is going to take alliance between Catholics and reformed Christians and others to win any victory. Anti-Catholic bigotry or anti-Protestant bigotry is not only bad form and bad manners but quite counterproductive politically.

Lest there be any misunderstanding, I don't project your bigotry onto your candidate who has never, to the best of my knowledge, shown the slightest bigotry against Catholics or anyone else. El Ron Paulie is wrong on many things but certainly does not appear to be a bigot at all much less a malicious bigot. Nor should millions of decent and Godly Baptists have their reputations besmirched by your claim to be of them coupled with your remarkable slurs against the Roman Catholic Church.