Rookie cop who killed himself removed clip, left bullet in chamber

San Francisco Chronicle ^ | August 15, 2007 | Jaxon Van Derbeken,John Coté,

[walkerk]

The San Francisco rookie police officer who accidentally shot himself to death fired his weapon while displaying for a female friend how officers are taught to avoid having their guns used against them, law enforcement authorities said Tuesday.

The incident happened at 1:40 a.m. Saturday during a gathering of as many as 15 people at the San Mateo apartment of the 23-year-old officer, James Gustafson Jr.

According to those familiar with the incident, Gustafson was showing his Police Department-issued semiautomatic pistol after removing the clip that stores the rounds. He explained that there are ways an officer can disable a weapon in close proximity to keep it from being fired.

It apparently was part of a demonstration of the department's "weapons retention" procedures. However, there was still a bullet in the chamber.

Gustafson pointed the weapon at his neck and pulled the trigger, shooting himself, according to authorities.

[patton]

Well, 5, actually. If he was using a 1911 varient, and pushed hard on the barrel, it would not have shot.

The thing was designed to be rode hard on a horse, with no (or minimal) AD’s.

I kind of like that, in a gun.

[Califreak]

That’s why I stick with my trusty revolver. I have way too many brain farts to try and deal with a gun like that.

[taxesareforever]

He explained that there are ways an officer can disable a weapon in close proximity to keep it from being fired.

Evidently he was showing ways that "don't disable" a weapon.

[Robwin]

Does this story mean police in San Francisco are actually allowed to carry weapons?

[Sender]

1- Always assume a firearm is loaded.

2- Take the magazine out anyway, even if you think it's not loaded.

3- Always check the chamber to see if it is loaded, even after the magazine is out.

4- Never point the muzzle at anything you don't intend to shoot.

5- Keep your finger off the trigger unless you intend to shoot something.

6- Never do stupid sh*t at a party or to impress a crowd with a firearm.

7- If you're drinking, don't even think about handling your firearm. See number 6.

I'm sure there are others.

[ASA Vet]

I have way too many brain farts to try and deal with a gun like that.

Much the same as my glocks. Pull the trigger it goes bang, don't pull the trigger it doesn't.
About as simple as one can get, just like my revolvers.

[JustaDumbBlonde]

"I'd have fired that clown on the spot and gone to real instructor."

My thoughts exactly.

[Stonewall Jackson]

Years ago, when I went to the firearms safety class at Fort Knox (a requirement in order to hunt on post), the instructor told us about his cousin, the range safety officer at either Fort Riley or Fort Carson (sorry, but it's been nineteen years since I heard this story), who was cleaning his pistol after a day at the range. He worked the action to remove the round from the chamber and then ejected the magazine.

Imagine his surprise when he pulled the trigger and put a round through his thigh, calf, and foot (it takes talent to hit yourself three times with the same round) and ended up in the hospital for several weeks.

[paul51]

One time I was clearing my pistol and dropped the mag and then pulled the slide back. I then reholstered and it occured to me the round never came out of the chamber. I looked and it was still in there. The extractor had failed and I still had a loaded gun which I thought was empty.

That's a good reminder for everyone. Chances of that happening are very low however if it does, someone can get dead

[Califreak]

“How about the “gun is always to be considered loaded, never point your weapon at something you aren’t willing to destroy, fire only when you can identify your target and what lies behind it...”

If you even look at a gun, you should be thinking that. That’s part of the safety training.

“SF Police..... sad. If this was at a party, do you think that alcohol might have been involved?”

I won’t go to the range if I’m run down, ill, or even just a little bit sleepy!

[thefactor]

i was taught one step further. a visual/physical inspection. look down the chamber and stick your pinky in the chamber hole to make sure it’s clear. just don’t let the slide go while your finger is in there! i always thought it was a weird rule...

[Sender]

I got to hunt Fort Knox one fall a few years ago. I remember that there were parachute flares and other disturbingly bomblike fins sticking out of the ground everywhere. Every now and then you would come across a wide swath of woods which had been totally flattened by a tank. Then when you finally got to your hunting spot, you could see a lot of orange all around you. Orange vests and hats, that is. You weren't supposed to shoot at those. It was rather high-density. Then there was the sound of the 50 BMG firing somewhere over the hill, unconcerned about our attempts to remain quiet and undetected.

I think the guys that got a deer that day were basically standing around smoking cigarettes and the unnerved deer just happened to run into their muzzles at a moment when they were not munching on sandwiches.

[Uri’el-2012]

You may find Colonel Jeff Cooper's interpretation of some interest:

http://www.thefiringline.com/Misc/safetyrules.html

Jeff Cooper's Rules of Gun Safety

I am quite familiar with Col. Cooper's rules.

They have value for dogfaces and grunts.
Which is where they were developed during WWII.

However they have proven to be unsafe.

Police Officer Safety Training (POST) train with Cooper rules
which is why they have fools like the subject of this thread.

Many years ago the NRA used the Cooper rules;
His rules proved to be unsafe, the NRA training dept
spent years developing safer rules. They are much safer:

Why do I point the gun in a safe direction?
Because until I inspect the chamber, I assume it is loaded.

Why do I keep my finger off the trigger?
Because I assume that it is loaded until I inspect the chamber.

I don't load a gun until I plan to use it.

In addition to training NRA Certified Instructors in all disciplines
I'm a Chief Range Safety Officer training NRA Certified Range Safety Officers
and I also teach the development of Standard Operating Procedures for the operation of
both indoor and outdoor ranges in all disciplines.

Here are the rules which are safer than Cooper rules:

Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction

Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot

Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use

[yarddog]

I too am a former firearms instuctor tho my certification has expired many years ago.

That first rule, “Never point or allow a gun under your control to point at anything you would not want to see destroyed.” Is the best one.

I think many instructors list the “every gun is loaded” as the first one and it is a good rule but I still think the controlling the muzzle is the most important.

[Polynikes]

“... This is from a agency that denied me employment because I wasn’t sufficiently ethnically or culturally diverse. I at least knew enough not to point my weapon at my head/neck.”

I hear there’s an opening.

I know that. There are a lot of openings at the SFPD. They are very understaffed, but they are not interested in straight white males with a sense of right and wrong who know how to handle and respect firearms. Don’t get me wrong the rank and file officers I have met have been great. Its their bureaucracy that is infested with PC BS and are looking for, as was quoted to me “ A culturally and ethnically diverse selection of officers. In other words, Whitey unless you got relatives or connections on the force look somewhere else

[Stonewall Jackson]

You should have tried the Boy Scout camping trips we used to have out there.

Every January, we'd have the Klondike Derby out on post (this is the camping trip where you are supposed to drag a dog-sled through the snow to different outposts and perform various cold-weather survival skills, but it never snowed for us and we'd usually end up out there in shorts and t-shirts), and for years we were in this one patch of woods over near the hospital, where it was relatively safe. Then, my next-to-last year of scouting, they were tearing down the old barracks buildings on that part of post, so we had to go out to an old training site near Camp Carlson.

We had to move old belts of .30 and .50-caliber ammunition in order to drive our tent stakes into the ground (I kid you not on this), and the next day, my dad had some idiot walk up to him carrying an old tank simulator round and asked him what it was. My dad's response was to quickly back up and inform the guy that he needed to carefully put it on the ground because it was the same as a stick of dynamite.

They had the EOD guys out there that evening, making sure that nobody tried to take anything home with them (this was about two months after a couple of kids found a case of old hand grenades at another base and were carrying them home in their backpacks when they went off), and they moved the Derby back to its old location the next year.

Your mentioning of how the deer were bagged reminds me of my grandfather's last hunting trip to Fort Knox. He was either 74 or 75 at the time, so we'd been out early and scouted out a good spot just a few hundred feet from where we parked, and we got him situated on his camp stool under a cedar tree.

A few hours later, just after sunrise, my dad and I were a couple hundred yards away when we heard a shot from his area. We walked over and there was grandpa, sound asleep under the tree, with a nice three-point buck (it would have been a four-pointer, but one antler had snapped off earlier in the year). Grandpa had been sound asleep under the tree when he heard the deer pussy-footing past him (it's awfully hard to sneak past combat veterans). He opened his eyes, spotted the deer (who knew something was wrong but didn't know what), lifted his shotgun, and pulled the trigger. If he'd wanted to, Grandpa probably could have bopped the deer over the head with his shotgun, it was that close. Once he made sure it was dead, he settled back under the tree and went back to sleep.

[Kozak]

Paige, who writes that he was “once regarded as one of the best undercover agents, if not the best, in the DEA,”

That's reassuring..../sarc

[The KG9 Kid]

I admit that I've seen a lot of crappy cops in San Francisco. They do have some straight-A squared-away types on the force, but I did see really sloppy cops in the city: Long hair, hands in pockets, ratty uniform, not a bit tactical-minded at all while on duty. If it weren't for the badge and gun, I would sworn I was looking at a bus driver.

Plus, the DA sucks, the Mayor truly sucks, and the Chief of Police is a complete dingbat who makes it very difficult for me to believe that she really is a sworn LEO. No cop with talent or brains stays on the SFPD very long after they've paid off their debt to the city for academy training, ajnd there's been stories here on FR lately about the 'blue bleed' that SF suffers when rookie cops get the academy training, do their minimum time, and skeedaddle for a decent department. Small wonder: San Francisco is a particularly violent and seedy town that hates it's law enforcement. Criminals are a protected and celebrated species there.

Glad I left. Don't miss a thing from San Francisco. The few things in California that I do miss are all down in Los Angeles.

[B-Chan]

During my carry permit training we had to dry-fire at the instructor

Eff that. No way would I point a gun at anybody I didn't intend to kill. Screw the CCL — that's just freaking nuts.

[lepton]

Obviously he had a firearms safety class from the police department, and not from the “irresponsible” NRA.