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Learn from the fall of Rome, US warned
The Financial Times ^ | August 14 2007 | Jeremy Grant

Posted on 08/14/2007 9:22:48 AM PDT by mustang buff

The US government is on a ‘burning platform’ of unsustainable policies and practices with fiscal deficits, chronic healthcare underfunding, immigration and overseas military commitments threatening a crisis if action is not taken soon, the country’s top government inspector has warned. David Walker, comptroller general of the US, issued the unusually downbeat assessment of his country’s future in a report that lays out what he called “chilling long-term simulations”. These include “dramatic” tax rises, slashed government services and the large-scale dumping by foreign governments of holdings of US debt.

(Excerpt) Read more at ft.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: arewerome; romanempire; rome; searchrome; thirdposting
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To: OB1kNOb

What a nasty thing to say about a Ferengi.


101 posted on 08/15/2007 6:14:41 AM PDT by Steamburg (Your wallet speaks the only language most politicians understand.)
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To: stuartcr
So for you, there are moral absolutes, but since others think differently and your moral absolutes shouldn’t be forced on another, where is the real absoluteness?

I'm not sure I see the connection, but I would like to point out that I didn't say NO moral absolutes should be forced on people. I said SOME shouldn't.

But if morality has to do not only with action but intention (the intention specifies the act", says Aquinas) and intention can't be forced - at least I think it can't - I might be able to compel some behaviors or the avoidance of some behaviors, but others would be beyond my power to compel. For instance, I could punish marital infidelity, but I don't see how I could compel husbands to love their wives.

Shouldn’t a real moral absolute be something inherent in every soul throughout history?

Well according to the account of the "God, The universe, and Everything" which I hold, they were inherent, but humans got broken, or broke themselves. They don't know themselves, they don't know what they want, much less what they ought to want, and even when they have a clue about what they want, they don;'t know how to get it.

It's not the absence of moral absolutes which makes for disagreements, it's the absence of self-knowledge. Other aspects of our personal disintegrity (?) have to do with how we don't or can't do what we think we should. But, in general, yeah, if there is such a thing as human nature, I think there is at least a logical inherentness to the best way to be human. But that doesn't mean we know all of it.

Again, it seems that very nearly every culture on earth teaches that you shouldn't just have sex with whoever whenever (or whatever!). This is so general an idea that the few cultures that don't think so are regarded as truly weird

But the notion that it "works" best when it's one guy and one chick and a lifelong commitment to reflect the relationship between Christ and His Church, that's not (or is no longer) inherent. That's got to be revealed.

102 posted on 08/15/2007 6:19:06 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: mustang buff
Bread:

And Circuses:


103 posted on 08/15/2007 6:24:04 AM PDT by P.O.E. (School's Out. Drive Safely)
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To: P.O.E.

Yep - and that implies a culture and government intended to minimize the sense of personal autonomy and responsibility. That’ll kill us fer shur.


104 posted on 08/15/2007 6:39:42 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg

Personally, I don’t believe in moral absolutes for all. I just believe that men have been designed to strive for what they believe to be a moral absolute.


105 posted on 08/15/2007 6:42:41 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: stuartcr
For that you must DIE!

Anything wrong with that?

106 posted on 08/15/2007 6:49:46 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg
minimize the sense of personal autonomy and responsibility

It's all designed to keep people from thinking. Notice how they pump music into shopping emporia - clutters your mind so you act more on feeling than thought.

107 posted on 08/15/2007 6:53:49 AM PDT by P.O.E. (School's Out. Drive Safely)
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To: Mad Dawg

Only if I lived where you are in charge.


108 posted on 08/15/2007 7:02:01 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: stuartcr
Yeah. (I promise I'd make it painless, really!) It gets dicey where more than one person is involved and where power comes into play.

But if there is no absolute morality, is it fair to say there is no justice? If it is, then are courts a matter of power only?

109 posted on 08/15/2007 7:17:06 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg

No, I think the idea of absolute morals, generally agreed upon by the people or those in charge, is what determines justice.


110 posted on 08/15/2007 7:26:38 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: stuartcr
Okay. The brain just hit a wall.

Are you saying something like:
There is no sort of independently existent "justice", what "justice" is (or what determines justice) is a sort of precipitate from the coming together of a large number of people with moral preferences the validity of which is indeterminate, indeterminable, or irrelevant? I say "precipitate" in an effort to avoid stating one way, like consensus or polling, that the justice thing, whatever it is, is determined.

Another way to ask my question is, When a kid says, "Hey, no fair!" is there anything meaningful which distinguishes that statement from "Hey, I don't like that!"

(Gotta go now, Stuff to do.)

111 posted on 08/15/2007 8:01:34 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg

That’s pretty much the way I see it.


112 posted on 08/15/2007 8:20:10 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: stuartcr
My point being, does it really matter whether anyone turns their back on God or not, as God already knows what someone is going to do and what is going to happen, and whether the US falls or not. Whatever you or I or the US does, must be part of God’s plan.

OK, thanks for the clarification.

My answer is yes, it does matter whether or not we turn our back on God or not. And you are correct, whatever you or I do or the US does is part of God's plan.

Knowing God has a plan for all of us doesn't mean we can just sit back and relax.

113 posted on 08/15/2007 8:20:26 AM PDT by frogjerk (If ignorance was bliss, liberals would be happy.)
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To: frogjerk

I think instead of just sitting back and relaxing, (unless, of course, that is what God has planned for you), we just continue on doing what we think we should.


114 posted on 08/15/2007 8:23:29 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: stuartcr
I think instead of just sitting back and relaxing, (unless, of course, that is what God has planned for you), we just continue on doing what we think we should.

More like, "we need to continue on doing what God wills."

115 posted on 08/15/2007 8:32:25 AM PDT by frogjerk (If ignorance was bliss, liberals would be happy.)
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To: frogjerk

Which, since He has a plan for each of us, we can’t help but do.


116 posted on 08/15/2007 8:55:44 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: stuartcr
Which, since He has a plan for each of us, we can’t help but do.

Not true. We have freewill to choose His way or not.

117 posted on 08/15/2007 9:05:44 AM PDT by frogjerk (If ignorance was bliss, liberals would be happy.)
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To: mustang buff

I think he actually does bring up some decent points, but the laughable assertion that our health care system is “underfunded” makes it difficult to take anything he says seriously.


118 posted on 08/15/2007 9:08:05 AM PDT by jpl (Dear Al Gore: it's 3:00 A.M., do you know where your drug addicted son is?)
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To: frogjerk

That’s just one of the things where our beliefs differ.


119 posted on 08/15/2007 9:17:32 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: stuartcr
That’s just one of the things where our beliefs differ.

Agreed.

120 posted on 08/16/2007 9:01:44 AM PDT by frogjerk (If ignorance was bliss, liberals would be happy.)
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