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Heretical Thoughts About Science and Society [Freeman Dyson chides global warming alarmists]
Edge: The Third Culture ^ | 8 Aug 2007 | Freeman Dyson

Posted on 08/10/2007 11:44:05 AM PDT by snarks_when_bored

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To: snarks_when_bored
When we are trying to take care of a planet, just as when we are taking care of a human patient, diseases must be diagnosed before they can be cured. We need to observe and measure what is going on in the biosphere, rather than relying on computer models.

Much like early physicians and surgeons used bloodletting to treat a variety of ailments, the followers of Gore want to drain the financial resources of the rich to cure the planet. They feel that doing something, even if it makes the problem worse, will demonstrate their commitment to the cause.

41 posted on 08/10/2007 5:07:24 PM PDT by eggman (Democrat party - The black hole of liberalism from which no rational thought can escape.)
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To: ClaireSolt

:’)


42 posted on 08/10/2007 10:06:41 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Thursday, August 9, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: ari-freedom; snarks_when_bored; Paradox; samtheman
Who will be the next top nation? China is the obvious candidate. After that it might be India or Brazil.
By 2070, nearly the entire current population of China will be dead, and nearly three halvings of the Chinese population (1 child families) will have taken place. The only reason there will be any wealthy Chinese will be tontine style inheritance.
43 posted on 08/10/2007 10:13:14 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Thursday, August 9, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Paradox
As far as I can find out the Western Roman Empire fell because nobody would fight for it.

10,000 Germanic tribesmen sacked Rome in 410, as I recall. 10,000 barbarians just did whatever they wished with impunity. At the time the population of Rome was about one million.

The Roman Army at that time was largely made up of Germanic tribesmen, Goths, Vandals, etc. The Commander in Chief of the Roman Army in Italy was a fellow named Stilicho, a Vandal tribesman.

The Romans were all on welfare or working for the government. It had been more than a hundred years since moving or changing jobs without official permission had been prohibited. The value of the currency had been destroyed by inflation and with it the value of savings. Pretty much everyone was in permanent debt. Everything most people owned had had to be sold to pay debts. The farms were worked with slave labor.

44 posted on 08/11/2007 2:51:44 AM PDT by Iris7 ("Do not live lies!" ...Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn)
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To: SunkenCiv
Right at the moment China is headed toward secessionary wars. The Moslem populations in the west are kept in their place by massacre.

Hu Jintao (smart cookie) is putting in place a most thorough and universal police state (the “public health” stuff is all about that).

The Shanghai faction had very nearly escaped Beijing’s clutches at long last (conquest of south by Beijing based governments ran 970 to 1279) after the death of Mao. That is no longer in the cards.

A war with China can be prevented even though China has a great excess of young men over young women. The only real difficulty in aborting this coming “Taiwan Straits” war is American homegrown Left dementia.

45 posted on 08/11/2007 3:08:45 AM PDT by Iris7 ("Do not live lies!" ...Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn)
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To: Iris7
As far as I can find out the Western Roman Empire fell because nobody would fight for it.

Pretty much. I see Europe in that condition, USA not too far behind, all because of creeping Liberalism. Conservatives are the last bastion of hope for the West.

46 posted on 08/11/2007 4:20:52 AM PDT by Paradox (Politics: The art of convicing the populace that your delusions are superior to others.)
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To: snarks_when_bored; OKSooner; honolulugal; Killing Time; Beowulf; Mr. Peabody; RW_Whacko; ...

FReepmail me to get on or off


Click on POGW graphic for full GW rundown

New!!: Dr. John Ray's
GREENIE WATCH

Ping me if you find one I've missed.


A good read..
47 posted on 08/11/2007 5:33:09 AM PDT by xcamel ("It's Talk Thompson Time!" >> irc://irc.freenode.net/fredthompson)
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To: ari-freedom
Not as long as America keeps that inheritance, but we are visibly losing it. What has saved America's preeminence is that the rest of the world is losing these things too, or failing to find them. That must change, if civilization is to have a future at all. It may well be that China will lead the change. I am certainly convinced that revolution, peaceful or violent, is coming there.

But economic greatness does not necessarily translate into political and military power, at least without a long delay, as America's own history shows. Politically, China is already over extended. Freedom for China will mean at least a pullback, and possibly outright political breakup - none of which will be a tragedy.

Perhaps, instead of asking what nation will come out on top, we should anticipate the end of the era of nation states.

48 posted on 08/11/2007 5:48:28 AM PDT by Christopher Lincoln
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To: snarks_when_bored
The introduction is nicely written.

The whole article is pretty good, but he accepted (without question!) the fallacy that GW is CAUSED by the increase in CO2 from man’s emissions.

Ignores the counter-relationship between temps and cosmic radiation/sunspot activity/cloud/vapor levels. Ironically, he mentions some of these factors, but ignores their influence.

49 posted on 08/11/2007 6:36:38 AM PDT by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: snarks_when_bored

bumpers!


50 posted on 08/11/2007 6:53:19 AM PDT by rock58seg (Change Homeland Security to U. S. Security. It's time they remember what country to protect.)
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To: snarks_when_bored

Freeman Dyson rocks. I watched an older documentary about a project going to Mars using very small atomic bombs that he was heavily involved with. I don’t understand half of what he says at times, as I’m not that scientific, but if he says it’s not as bad as Al Gore claims, I’d agree with him much more than some of these climatologists


51 posted on 08/11/2007 6:58:34 AM PDT by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
but he accepted (without question!) the fallacy that GW is CAUSED by the increase in CO2 from man’s emissions

Not completely accepted and not a fallacy. He pointed out that extra CO2 warms the dry polar regions, but has no effect on the temperate or tropical regions. He left out the fact that CO2 also warms the upper troposphere. But he correctly pointed out that "global warming" does not exist.

52 posted on 08/11/2007 7:11:24 AM PDT by palmer
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To: Iris7

I agree — unless those 40 million extra men get churned up in an internal war of some sort (Tibet, or in some reprise of the “cultural revolution”), neighboring countries have something to fear.


53 posted on 08/11/2007 7:27:40 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Thursday, August 9, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
The whole article is pretty good, but he accepted (without question!) the fallacy that GW is CAUSED by the increase in CO2 from man’s emissions.

Well, I see that Dyson says this: "One of the main causes of warming is the increase of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere resulting from our burning of fossil fuels such as oil and coal and natural gas." I'd guess that he would argue that the phrase "one of the main causes" leaves open the possibility of other causes.

Ignores the counter-relationship between temps and cosmic radiation/sunspot activity/cloud/vapor levels. Ironically, he mentions some of these factors, but ignores their influence.

Remember that this piece is just an excerpt from his book; it could be that he goes into more detail in rest of the book (although I don't know this since I've not read it).

54 posted on 08/11/2007 7:45:33 AM PDT by snarks_when_bored
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

I agree with you Robert.


55 posted on 08/11/2007 10:00:20 AM PDT by TenthAmendmentChampion (Pray for our President and for our heroes in Iraq and Afghanistan, and around the world!)
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To: snarks_when_bored
But military intelligence bears the same relation to intelligence as military music bears to music.

But might Dyson have written such marches as John Philip Sousa?

56 posted on 08/11/2007 1:46:33 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: snarks_when_bored

What a remarkable mind.

When I presented this in another forum of supposed intellectuals and scientists it wasn’t even read. Who are the deniers now?


57 posted on 08/11/2007 9:46:40 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Democrat Happens!)
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To: snarks_when_bored

Nice post. Bookmark for later.


58 posted on 08/11/2007 9:54:50 PM PDT by IrishCatholic (No local communist or socialist party chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing.)
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To: snarks_when_bored

Jerry Pournelle predicts the coming demonization of Dyson by the GW fanatics. He also thinks that as more people come on board with the GW skeptics, that the fanatics will turn to violence.

http://www.jerrypournelle.com/view/view479.html#Monday


59 posted on 08/13/2007 6:42:14 AM PDT by nuke rocketeer
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To: snarks_when_bored

Good article, and one that we all need to think about.

There are many things that the culture at large refuses to think about. One is that “global warming” is not quite true (I fully expect the next tactic will be global cooling, and it will start in a few years), another is that evil exists and must be confronted.


60 posted on 08/14/2007 5:27:36 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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