Posted on 08/09/2007 7:25:59 AM PDT by tang0r
Edited on 08/09/2007 7:45:18 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
One of the most disturbing qualities of the neoconservative rhetoric is their incessant urging of Americans to "think positive" about the War in Iraq. They tell us America needs to remain on "offense." They tell us we haven't won the war yet because the Democrats are weak and anti-war citizens don't truly believe in the power of democracy. Ask any Republican presidential hopeful (besides Ron Paul) and they'll tell you we aren't losing the war, we're just uh... not winning it yet. But maybe we'll win it tomorrow. Or maybe the day after that. Winning is guaranteed though.
Ask any American how the war in Iraq is going outside of the Baghdad area and you will most likely just get a blank stare as their brain delivers a ‘data not available’ message.
So Mr. Hartfield is apparently trying to position as a foul-mouthed anti-Reagan - Hey, man! It’s f***in’ midnight in America!!
Before you toss that fact in, review the facts on the ground in Iraq.
The terrorists have no military capability.
They are unable to kill more American soldiers than die accidentally.
Their only chance of driving the US out of Iraq is through propaganda.
We don’t even need people to think positively about the war in Iraq. All we need is liberals to stop supporting the terrorists with propaganda harmful to America.
Unfortunately, the liberals largely in control of the American media cannot bring themselves to stop supporting the terrorists with their own propaganda where it is harmful to America.
When are these morons going to wake up that the Cold War is over and in a post 09-11 world their idiot ideas on how to manage National Security are not only unworkable but dangerously naive.
For about the billionth time. HERE is what we are doing in Iraq. MAYBE the Idiotcons should ONE TIME shut up spewing their 1930s ear theories and join the 21st century.
One of the really infuriating things in modern politics is the level of disinformation, misinformation, demagoguery and out right lying going on about the mission in Iraq. Democrats have spent the last 3+ years lying about Iraq out of a political calculation. The assumption is that the natural isolationist mindset of the average American voter, linked to the inherent Anti Americanism (what is misnamed the “Anti War movement”) of the more feverish Democrat activists (especially those running the US’s National “News” media) would restore them to national political dominance. The truth is the Democrat Party Leadership has simply lacked the courage to speak truth to whiners. The truth is that even if Al Gore won the 2000 election and 09-11 still happened we would be doing the EXACT same things in Iraq we are doing now.
Based on the political situation in the region left over from the 1991 Gulf War plus the domestic political consensus built up in BOTH parties since 1991 as well as fundamental military strategic laws, there was NO viable strategic choice for the US but to take out Iraq after finishing the initial operations in Afghanistan.
To start with Saddam’s Iraq was our most immediate threat. We could NOT commit significant military forces to another battle with Saddam hovering undefeated on our flank nor could we leave significant forces watching Saddam. The political containment of Iraq was breaking down. That what Oil for Food was all about. Oil for Food was an attempt by Iraq to break out of it’s diplomatic isolation and slip the shackles the UN Sanctions put on it’s military. There there was the US Strategic position to consider.
The War on Islamic Fascism is different sort of war. in facing this Asymmetrical threat, we have a hidden foe, spread out across a geographically diverse area, with covert sources of supply. Since we cannot go everywhere they hide out, in fact often cannot even locate them until the engage us, we need to draw them out of hiding into a kill zone.
Iraq is that kill zone. That is the true brilliance of the Iraq strategy. We draw the terrorists out of their world wide hiding places onto a battlefield they have to fight on for political reasons (The “Holy” soil of the Arabian peninsula) where they have to pit their weakest ability (Conventional Military combat power) against our greatest strength (ability to call down unbelievable amounts of firepower) where they will primarily have to fight other forces (the Iraqi Security forces) in a battlefield that is mostly neutral in terms of guerrilla warfare. (Iraqi-mostly open terrain as opposed to guerrilla friendly areas like the mountains of Afghanistan or the jungles of SE Asia).
Did any of the critics of liberating Iraq ever look at a map? Iraq, for which we had the political, legal and moral justifications to attack, is the strategic high ground of the Middle East. A Geographic barrier that severs ground communication between Iran and Syria apart as well as providing another front of attack in either state or into Saudi Arabia if needed.
There were other reasons to do Iraq but here is the strategic military reason we are in Iraq. We have taken, an maintain the initiative from the Terrorists. They are playing OUR game on ground of OUR choosing.
Problem is Counter Insurgency is SLOW and painful. Often a case of 3 steps forward, two steps back. One has to wonder if the American people have either the emotional maturity, nor the intellect” to understand. It’s so much easier to spew made for TV slogans like “No Blood for Oil” or “We support the Troops, bring them home” or dumbest of all “We are creating terrorists” then to actually THINK.
Westerners in general, and the US citizens in particular seem to have trouble grasping the fundamental fact of this foe. These Islamic Fascists have NO desire to co-exist with them. The extremists see all this PC posturing by the Hysteric Left as a sign that we are weak. Since they want us dead, weakness encourages them. There is simply no way to coexist with people who completely believe their “god” will reward them for killing us.
So we can covert to Islam, die or kill them. Iraq is about killing enough of them to make the rest of the Jihadists realize we are serious. They same way killing enough Germans, Italians and Japanese eliminated the ideologies of Nazism, Fascism and Bushido.
Americans need to understand how Bin Laden and his ilk view us. In the Arab world the USA is considered a big wimp. We have run away so many times. Lebanon, the Kurds, the Iraqis in 1991, the Iranians, Somalia, Clinton all thru the 1990s etc etc etc. The Jihadists think we will run again. In fact they are counting on it. That way they can run around screaming “We beat the American just like the Russians, come join us in Jihad” and recruit the next round of “holy warriors”. Iraq is also a show place where we show the Muslim world that there are a lines they cannot cross. On 9-11-01 they crossed that line and we can, and will, destroy them for it -
If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.”
Winston Churchill
I’ts not just the liberals - the American people in general don’t care about the wars we are in. People bash the media, but the fact is, the media is out to make money, and they push whatever will get eyeballs for their advertisers and unfortunately, many Americans are more concerned with the latest Hollywood bimbo who is in trouble than they are with the wars, and so we end up with CNN, Fox, etc., devoting hours upon hours to garbage.
Since the War in Iraq was a fool's errand from the outset and works increasingly counter to US interests the longer we're there, the sooner our ground forces leave Iraq - and for that matter the entire region - the better. No matter how much lipstick they put on this pig, the War in Iraq has been a disaster. IMHO, the only way to pretend it's in any way a victory is to encourage the Iraqis to ask us to leave and let them sort it out. That's a lousy option but the best available.
Man, you hit that one out of the park, the only offensive strategy for the WoT after 9/11 was taking Iraq and making it the kill zone. That is the true brilliance of the Iraq strategy.
False.
The media is not out to make money.
They’re in the business to influence minds and push a political agenda.
Traditional liberal news outlets are losing money hand-over-fist.
Moreover...the truth in Iraq sells better than the harmful lies used to the benefit of terrorists and liberal politicians in office.
Americans love American heroes. The media is creating villains out of US troops...even if they have to fabricate the news. Scott Thomas is the latest example.
The media is also creating heroes out of the terrorists.
Yawn. Prometheus Institute = libertarian nitwits.
“Besides there will be plenty to be positive about once the war is over and terrorists are too busy looting their own country to care about attacking us abroad.”
Here’s the scenario I see if we ‘cut and run’ from Iraq without leaving a respectable garrison behind:
1) Massive killing of pro-American Iraqis, with possible genocide against the Kurds.
2) Rapid expansion of terrorist training facilities inside Iraq.
3) Silent conquest of southern Iraq (Basra et al) by Iran, meaning Iran gets a huge new supply of oil to fund Middle East domination and get the current government off life-support.
I could go on, but I think that’s enough.
We need to keep slogging in Iraq, and I think Bush has no choice but to strike Iran before he leaves office.
No it’s not enough.
You forgot the single most damning bit:
Terrorists announce that the US is a doddering old paper tiger that cannot protect her allies and can be defeated without a military.
They continue to recommend all terrorists converge on the US irrespective of religious belief to destroy us.
They will have proven their case.
The neocon/GWB approach to the ME is grounded in the changing nature of terrorism. In the past, terrorists were able to at worst carbomb a high visible target, ie barrack, embassy, ship and kill up to 100 Americans every three years. To initiate a ground war and risk unhinging a region far outweighs the losses of doing business in the ME. Our response is usually a SOF raid or a cruise missile strike at known terrorist bases. 9/11 changed the dynamics because from their bases in the ME supported by Iraq, Syria, Iran, southern Lebanon and private individuals in Saudi Arabia terrorists can kill thousands on US soil. The worst case scenarios conjured up by US think tanks are no longer theoretical. What GWB/neocon did is bold and out of the box, because the US is no longer confined to just retaliatory airstrikes, but insertion of US power into the region to disrupt and eventually destroy the terrorist political and military infrastructure. Iraq would be the first country I would take and establish a US base because it is the geographical center amongst the five regional terrorist states (Syria, southern Lebanon, Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia. The GWB/neocon approach has its risks and costs. One can see the political split in the US, the loss of world opinion and additional finacial costs in treasure and blood. Anti war argues that we should keep the war effort to Afghanistan only, but as long as intel, material support and finances keep coming from the intact regional terrorist states in the ME, the jihadist will have the means to attack the US cities over, and over, and over again until they get one WMD in. Unlike the past, the risks to the US homeland now outweighs the risk of fighting and invading the ME with US forces. If GWB does not do this now, eventually a future US president (GOP or Dem) will come to the same conclusion.
Sit down Johnnie, I'm going to agree with you for once. The Iraq strategy is where I give the President huge props and it's very nearly the only area in which he can still count on my mostly unqualified support.
Did any of the critics of liberating Iraq ever look at a map?
I doubt most of them could understand a map even if they did look at one. For the most of them it's a knee jerk reflexive action to oppose any Republican action anywhere, anytime. But for a few, the ones at the top of their little liberal dungheap anyway, it's just one more way to continue their unabated assaults on the US Constitution.
One has to wonder if the American people have either the emotional maturity, nor the intellect” to understand
A very large number have neither. What should scare the shit out of you is that a very large percentage of those people vote.
L
43% of Democrats believe George H Bush knew about the 9/11 attacks before they happened.
This article is from about a year ago, I'd like to see current statistics.
Pretty sad though.
I found out recently that a fellow professional (and a fairly smart guy in some respects) is convinced that the WTC was imploded by demolition. My respect for his logical abilities instantly went to zero.
“3) Silent conquest of southern Iraq (Basra et al) by Iran, meaning Iran gets a huge new supply of oil to fund Middle East domination and get the current government off life-support.”
I accept your point FRiend, but I think that Iran is already making a big play for the oil fields in and around Basra Province. Our forces are already suffering the worst casualty ration (41 deaths this year) in Basra than at any time before, and shy of a build-up of UK forces in the region (we can’t, as our military is tied down firmly in Afghanistan with a near 8,000 strong presence) I cant see any way to stop them.
Unless you guys send down the 82nd Airbourne to give us a hand fighting the insurgents and Shia-Iran backed militia, then we are going to lose. As again with us, we cannot lose this war in the South, but we cannot win it either without some serious backing from US forces.
So far the only winners in the neocon/Bush approach are the Iranians and the terrorists.
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