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To: Sherman Logan
Once the Soviets recovered from the shock and surprise of Barbarossa

I was talking about WWI where Germany was kicking the crap out of Russia but pulled back to send troops to the western front. If Germany had kept up the pressure Lenin would have never got back to Russia and the there would have been no October Revolution and no Red Army.

If the US had not entered WWII and helped supply the USSR, the USSR would have repulsed Germany but not have been able to finish Germany off.

65 posted on 08/06/2007 5:31:41 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Democrat Happens!)
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To: Mike Darancette
I was talking about WWI where Germany was kicking the crap out of Russia but pulled back to send troops to the western front. If Germany had kept up the pressure Lenin would have never got back to Russia and the there would have been no October Revolution and no Red Army.

Ummm...your history is a bit off there.

The GERMANS SENT Lenin back to Russia. Deliberately. To foment revolt.

The Russians, essentially, surrendered to Germany in the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk - they gave up the Ukraine, Western Russia, etc. etc. The fighting Stopped. Then the Germans transferred troops to the Western front for the Spring 1918 offensives.

Without US involvement, the Germans would have won the war. Then the Germans would have eventually outbuilt the Britisn and defeated them at sea, and you likely would have had a long term cold (or hot) war for global domination between Germany and the US.

66 posted on 08/06/2007 6:17:49 PM PDT by Strategerist
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To: Mike Darancette
If the US had not entered WWII and helped supply the USSR, the USSR would have repulsed Germany but not have been able to finish Germany off.

Possible, even if I doubt it.
Britian would have been forced to come to an accommodation without US support. Without the increasing effectiveness of Bomber Command and the 8th Air Force, the Luftwaffe would not have been forced to pull back off of the Eastern Front in 1943, delaying the Red Army's offensive for as much as a year.
I do not see how the most effective aid (heavy trucks) that the US gave the USSR would not have gotten to them even without Lend Lease (would either have been bought on the open market, or given by leftists in US). The biggest wild card is what happens to Vichy France as the Wehrmakt is ground to hamburger in the east and stories of Soviet Atrocities are trumpeted by Germany throughout the non-communist world.

70 posted on 08/06/2007 6:30:29 PM PDT by Fraxinus (My opinion worth what you paid.)
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To: Mike Darancette

Okay, I get your point. However, there really was no Red Army in existence in 1917/1918, so I assumed you were referring to WWII, when it was very much in existence.


73 posted on 08/06/2007 8:38:32 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (It's not the heat, it's the stupidity.)
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