[Polybius]

I do a lot of historical gaming. The idea that the USA made little difference in either war and that the USSR would have won regardless is very prevalent, especially in Europe.

Let us assume that they are correct for the sake of argument.

What they are admitting, in effect, is that the nations of the European Union now owe their independence and freedom to the United States of America.

Without the involvement of the United States, what is now the European Union would today still be under the domination of either the Third Reich or the still existing Soviet Union as the Soviet Union would have otherwise "liberated" all of Western Europe either to the Pyrenees or to the Portuguese Atlantic coast.

[Taylor42]

And if a certain British Tommy had pulled the trigger on a specific german soldier there would have been no Adolph to come to power...

But then if a frog had wings...

[Ingtar]

Without the involvement of the United States, what is now the European Union would today still be under the domination of either the Third Reich or the still existing Soviet Union as the Soviet Union would have otherwise "liberated" all of Western Europe either to the Pyrenees or to the Portuguese Atlantic coast.

I've tried to make that point. You know how hard it is to try to reason with people that think that the latter would have been a good thing?