Mitt unplugged

Politico ^ | August 04, 2007 | Jonathan Martin

[mmanager]

Mitt Romney engaged in a heated discussion about his Mormon faith with a prominent Des Moines talk show host off the air on Thursday morning. The contentious back-and-forth between Romney and WHO's Jan Mickelson began on the air (video link courtesy Breitbart.tv) when the former governor appeared on the popular program that has become a regular stop for GOP presidential hopefuls. But the conversation spilled over to a commercial break and went on after the program ended, where a visibly annoyed Romney spoke in much greater detail about his church's doctrines than he is comfortable doing so in public.

The footage was captured by the station's in-studio camera and posted on its website. But Romney, who is careful to portray a sunny and upbeat public image, clearly did not know he was being recorded. The candidate reveals a private side that is at turns cutting, combative and sarcastic, but most of all agitated at being forced to defend what he and his church stand for.

[Weeedley]

www.fairlds.org

That site is in no way objective. I knew next to nothing about Mormons and Mormonism so I had to look it up, whit Wikipedia being the main source. Since Mormons can edit the the content of it, i feel it portrays a fair amount of information on Mormonism. I am an open minded person but:

It is totally shocking to read the accounts of how Mormonism came into being and how non-plausable the story of Joseph
Smith and his seer stone that led him to dig up the golden plates that were buried in Palmyra NY in 400 by some undeniably pagan to the core indian named Mormon that were written in Reformed Egyptian, which John Smith had pre-knowledge of how to translate. How sane intelligent people can swallow this crock of crapola about the founding of Mormonism and actually believe these events could have actually occurred is beyond reason. Open question to Mormons: Where are the golden plates now, and if they no longer exist, what happened to them? Here is a sample of Reformed Egyptian in John Smith's own hand: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/02/Caractors_large.jpg A religion is based on the above scribblings. You be the judge. [ROTFLMAO] If the story of the founding is ridiculous and the transcription of the alleged engravings has the appearance of demented scribblings ---how can any of what follows have any credibility? Anyone like Romney who actually believes this nonsence hook line and sinker disqualifies himself for president.

[colorcountry]

You forget that Mormonism believes it is the one and only true church of God based upon the fact that it is headed by a Prophet of God...a mouthpiece and spokesman for God on earth. If the Prophet can be fooled about a salamander letter, that leads to bombings and death, then Houston - se have a problem. Either the Prophet is fallible (which nowandlater admits) or God is fallible (which is impossible.) Now if the Prophet is fallible, then how do we know when he is acting as God's spokesman and when he is just a man.

You cannot compare this example to that of history or God preventing his Churches from doing wrong. Other Churches do NOT claim that they are infallible - - only God is perfect - - eveyone else is fallible.

[sevenbak]

Good post, it’s called free agency, man must have the right to choose good over bad. But that said, we believe he has given us servants to help guide us into truth.

BTW, polygamy was mentioned in the Book of Mormon looong before Joseph ever instituted it, and it was not mentioned in a good way. This is a prime example I think of what you mentioned in your post, how we are expected to go back to principles and correct what our Churches are doing wrong.

Here’s the reference from the Book of Morom. The key to this is to pay CAREFUL attention to verse 30: This is a prophet correcting his people of a gross sin.

Jacob 2:
23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.
24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
33 For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people because of their tenderness, save I shall visit them with a sore curse, even unto destruction; for they shall not commit awhoredoms, like unto them of old, saith the Lord of Hosts.
34 And now behold, my brethren, ye know that these commandments were given to our father, Lehi; wherefore, ye have known them before; and ye have come unto great condemnation; for ye have done these things which ye ought not to have done.
35 Behold, ye have done greater iniquities than the Lamanites, our brethren. Ye have broken the hearts of your tender wives, and lost the confidence of your children, because of your bad examples before them; and the sobbings of their hearts ascend up to God against you. And because of the strictness of the word of God, which cometh down against you, many hearts died, pierced with deep wounds.

[sevenbak]

They are doctrines of the church, Color. They are accepted and instituted by it’s leaders. You just can’t compare this with the fraudulent Salamander Letter. It was acquired because it was “supposed church history”. How can you compare it?

[sevenbak]

Other Churches do NOT claim that they are infallible - - only God is perfect - - eveyone else is fallible.

Hey, how about that, something we agree on. The LDS church does not claim that it's flock or even it's leaders are infallible. There was only one perfect person who ever lived, after all. Even the ancient prophets were human.

[colorcountry]

Apples to Apples, seven. Show me why Temple ordinances are required to be exalted. Please show me.

Hearsay? Traditions of men? Works? Revelation by a fallible spokesman of God and yet not recorded ANYWHERE - not scripture - not “thus sayeth the Lord”? Seven - think about it.

[sevenbak]

You are comparing hoaxes to acepted doctrines. Nothing to copare to.

[Saundra Duffy]

“Joseph Smith was a documented nutbag. People who follow nutbags are likely to pose problems as President.”

There are many intelligent people who are Mormons - go to
http://www.famousmormons.net/

Thank you for fulfilling prophesy and proving Joseph Smith to be a true Prophet. Joseph Smith predicted that he would be known for good and evil. I know him for good and you know him for evil.

[sevenbak]

All doctrines are not recorded in scripture BTW, unless you are an expert on being the mouthpeice of God? I’m not. Even the ancient apostles knew there were some things that were better left unwritten for the general public.

1 Corinthians 3:
1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

This has been fun, but I have to go. I’m in Price on the horrible story of the trapped coal miners. Please pray for them and thier families.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

LNS,

I think you miss that all the public knows about
mormonism is ‘the cultist at their door’...
and polygamy.

please forgive the American public who is choosing
their President for wanting to know what the heck
Mitt believes. People want to know and like their
President. To hide what you believe gives the
appearance of deceit.

You can disagree. Fine. But until Mitt talks with
the American people about his basic beliefs and
convinces them that even though he is in a fringe
religious group (numerically), that he is still
normal. Until that happens, it will dog him and
keep him entrenched instead of winning.

thanks for the discussion,
ampu

PS - I still think Mick was right about his
main point.

[colorcountry]

The LDS church does not claim that it's flock or even it's leaders are infallible

So how come you are admonished to "Follow the Prophet?"

Aren't you told this in Mormonism? The prophet will never lead the Church astray.....

President (Prophet) Wilford Woodruff stated: "I say to Israel, The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of the Church to lead you astray. It is not in the program. It is not in the mind of God." (The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, selected by G. Homer Durham [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1946], pp. 212-213.)

Following is a Summary contained in a message given by President and Prophet, Ezra Taft Benson (FOURTEEN FUNDAMENTALS IN FOLLOWING THE PROPHET, February 26, 1980)

First: The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.

Second: The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.

Third: The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.

Fourth: The prophet will never lead the Church astray.

Fifth: The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.

Sixth: The prophet does not have to say "Thus saith the Lord" to give us scripture.

Seventh: The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.

Eighth: The prophet is not limited by men's reasoning.

Ninth: The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.

Tenth: The prophet may be involved in civic matters.

Eleventh: The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.

Twelfth: The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.

Thirteenth: The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency--the highest quorum in the Church.

Fourteenth: The prophet and the presidency--the living prophet and the First Presidency--follow them and be blessed; reject them and suffer.

(Summary of a message given by President and Prophet, Ezra Taft Benson FOURTEEN FUNDAMENTALS IN FOLLOWING THE PROPHET, February 26, 1980)

[colorcountry]

You really have no need to admonish me to pray for the miners. I already have, the very moment I heard about it, and continue to pray.

[Paulus Invictus]

Have you ever talked to an Israeli conservative Jew about religion? I have. They were well beyond argumentative and defensive. Mitt did well against the radio interviewer.

[restornu]

It works both ways LB,

While they thinks they are trashing Mitt and the LDS,

We are also watching as they trying to kick against the prick!

[restornu]

Touchy CC,

...there more than you reading this thread!

[ushr435]

Without his disclosure of his beliefs makes one question his intentions in office. Some might argue that it is a personal matter but I disagree when it comes to play with the POTUS. I believe it speaks volumns of a persons integrity when these questions are asked.

---

The same goes for O”bomb”a! Seems kind of important ot know if this guy has a fatwah hanging over his head.

[restornu]

I comfortable where I choose to be, but you don’t seem too be happy, it gives the impression that all is not well when you keep looking back!:)

[colorcountry]

Nun yer bithness.

[colorcountry]

All is not well. It never is when a Church lies to you. It’s something you don’t get over easily, and it is something I vowed to combat for the rest of my life.

I’m glad you’re happy resty. Life is eternal.