[SampleMan]

Well sorry to burst your bubble but you've been lied to and you fell for it.

No. I made a math error and had already posted a correction before you made your post.

The tax is 23% OF the gross payment not 23% ON the price. A 300.00 TV would be $390.00 and your $200,000 house would be $260,000...$90 is 23% of $390(gross payment) and $60,000 is 23% of $260,000 (gross payment

Curious and confusing if true. Are you certain of this? It is NOT how I read the proposal. If I ask for 23% of the gross amount of a sale, I mean the sale BEFORE taxation, NOT AFTER. I think you are confused about the intent, but by all means let's clarify it so that it means the same thing to both of us. The same applies to your assumption that state sales tax will be taxed as part of the "gross amount".

You seem very wrapped up on the rate. Frankly I'm perplexed as to why. There is nothing to hold the rate steady and it can be increased or decreased. As to whether 23% is correct, I don't know. I haven't done the math. The states (at least 45 of them) have good figures on sales, and we know federal outlays, so it shouldn't be too hard to determine.

But the point is, we are already paying the tax now. But in our current system we slide payment up the ladder, while the burden is still carried by all. People who do not pay are left thinking they are getting something for nothing and voting accordingly, while their standard of living slides due to the hidden tax burden.

If you do not think that graduated income rates create inflated compensation then you are very much wrong.

Again, the point of a flat sales tax in my opinion would be to make the citizen more aware of the cost of their government. If the rate started at 30%, then that's what it would be. I'm confident it would quickly drop and we would have a healthier country as a result.

[lewislynn]

Curious and confusing if true. Are you certain of this?

I've been at this for 8 yrs. I'm certain.

`(5) GROSS PAYMENTS- The term `gross payments' means payments for taxable property or services, including Federal taxes imposed by this title.

Is the Fairtax a federal tax imposed by this title?

It also doesn't exclude anything like state sales taxes either. Hence the words "gross payment".

Wasn't it you I told to throw away "the book" and read HR25?

This is one of the other things I find most disturbing:

`(d) Old-Age, Survivors and Disability Insurance Rate- The old-age, survivors and disability insurance rate shall be determined by the Social Security Administration. The old-age, survivors and disability insurance rate shall be that sales tax rate which is necessary to raise the same amount of revenue that would have been raised by imposing a 12.4 percent tax on the Social Security wage base (including self-employment income) as determined in accordance with chapter 21 of the Internal Revenue Code most recently in effect prior to the enactment of this Act. The rate shall be determined using actuarially sound methodology and announced at least 6 months prior to the beginning of the Calendar year for which it applies.

`(e) Hospital Insurance Rate- The hospital insurance rate shall be determined by the Social Security Administration. The hospital insurance rate shall be that sales tax rate which is necessary to raise the same amount of revenue that would have been raised by imposing a 2.9 percent tax on the Medicare wage base (including self-employment income) as determined in accordance with chapter 21 of the Internal Revenue Code most recently in effect prior to the enactment of this Act. The rate shall be determined using actuarially sound methodology and announced at least 6 months prior to the beginning of the calendar year for which it applies.

`(f) Assistance- The Secretary shall provide such technical assistance as the Social Security Administration shall require to determine the old-age, survivors and disability insurance rate and the hospital insurance rate.

[lewislynn]

Again, the point of a flat sales tax in my opinion would be to make the citizen more aware of the cost of their government. If the rate started at 30%, then that's what it would be

The same citizen getting a government check every month?

What makes you think we're the only ones that know the cost of government?