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To: csense; Ping-Pong
Show me a reasonably clear indication of transition for the universe itself in Genesis, as with the word “became” for the the earth, and you’ll have my ear....

[Genesis 1:2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The first "was" is this: Strong's #1961. hayah (haw-yaw)to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary)

The second "was" is in Italics in the KJV and is included to make the verse more readable in English. The Hebrew word "Hayah" is not present in the original language here. "Hayah" is translated as "It shall come to pass" in [Genesis 4:14] and "It came to pass" in [Genesis 27:1].

[Genesis 1:3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. This word translated "was" in this verse is also "Hayah" and you can readily see the usage where God said.......and there "Became" light!

There are many other instances in the Hebrew where "Hayah " is used to denote "Became" or "it came to pass".

The words "without form and void" in verse 2 are the Hebrew "tohu va bohu" and are Strong's #8414 and #922. Tohu: tohuw (to'-hoo)from an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), i.e. desert; figuratively, a worthless thing; adverbially, in vain confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.

Bohu: bohuw (bo'-hoo)from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an indistinguishable ruin emptiness, void.

Now we can see that the English words used for this do not give quite the same picture......(without form and void). Moses calls it a desolation....evidently a result of some type of catastrophe.

[Isaiah 45:18] For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

It seems from just a casual reading of these verses that one can understand there was something here before [Genesis 1:2] and whatever it was that got rearranged was probably created billions of years earlier in [Genesis 1:1].

279 posted on 07/22/2007 7:58:17 PM PDT by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618
The first "was" is this: Strong's #1961. hayah (haw-yaw)to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary)

The second "was" is in Italics in the KJV and is included to make the verse more readable in English. The Hebrew word "Hayah" is not present in the original language here.

Well, Diego, if the word that represents the basis of the argument for the concept of transition isn't even there, then how does that demonstrate an answer to my question.

[Genesis 1:3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. This word translated "was" in this verse is also "Hayah" and you can readily see the usage where God said.......and there "Became" light!

And the light was a transition from?

Where is the word indicating a transition from one state to another...especially a state which qualitatively similar.

Again, I don't see my question, or request, being answered here.

Now we can see that the English words used for this do not give quite the same picture.....

You're kidding, right?

Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me, the words used in the KJV are right there in the definition you posted.

Moses calls it a desolation....evidently a result of some type of catastrophe.

I'm not sure what you're reading, but I don't see that conclusion in any way, shape , or form, in the verse that you quoted. In fact, I've seen other people post the same verse, and the same conjecture before, and I look at it (the verse) and think to myself....what in the hell are they talking about....

It seems from just a casual reading of these verses that one can understand there was something here before [Genesis 1:2] and whatever it was that got rearranged was probably created billions of years earlier in [Genesis 1:1].

No offense, but either you're crazy, or I am, because not only do I not see it, but I don't even see how anyone can come away with anything close to that conclusion from what you've presented here.

280 posted on 07/22/2007 8:39:56 PM PDT by csense
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