Posted on 07/20/2007 5:11:30 AM PDT by Mad Dawg
And a lawsuit is being prepared.
Norfolk passed an ILLEGAL 'no guns' ordinance a few months ago (no, I am NOT kidding) and ENFORCED that illegal ordinance against a VCDL member!
Bad, bad, bad mistake.
New firearms ordinances, other than those to control discharge or hunting, have been illegal in the Commonwealth since 1987! But Norfolk appears to have been passing a series of gun banning ordinances pertaining to various festivals that the City has put on over the years!
Unbelievable. And Norfolk, of all places, KNOWS better than to do that. (VCDL has had TWO large turnouts at City Council meetings a few years ago to make sure that City Council was aware of Virginia's preemption laws.)
But, Norfolk did it anyway and now it's time to pay the piper.
Worse, within the last month, Norfolk police have also harassed two other gun owners who were lawfully carrying openly, one black and one white - each was accosted on TWO separate occasions! More on those incidents later in the alert.
Here's the story of the false arrest under an illegal ordinance (if you take blood pressure medicine, now is the time to take it for this is going to be very unsettling). Sorry for the length, but it will read quickly:
Chet Szymecki arrived at Sail Virginia 2007, a tall ship festival in Norfolk, with his family (wife, their three children, and two other children from other families [all 13 and under]) around 2:30 PM on Sunday, June 10th, 2007.
As luck would have it, Dennis O'Connor and I were also at that same festival about the same time - but Chet didn't know that we were there and vice versa! Damn, I wish I had known what was about to transpire!
Chet, who was open carrying on that beautiful day, crossed paths with dozens of officers, with many being cognizant of the fact that he was openly carrying.
At 4:30 Chet and family had just ordered some waffle cakes and returned to a music area for an upcoming show. Chet was approached by a black female Norfolk Sheriff's officer and was asked if he was a police officer.
Chet responded, "No."
The officer then stated that Chet must leave the festival area immediately since he was not permitted to carry a firearm there. At the same time another Sheriff's deputy closed in, and one more hung back a few feet. The officer began communicating on her radio and Chet was expecting the situation to totally dissolve within minutes and he could then continue to enjoy the rest of the show with no further interruption.
Within a few seconds two groups of officers from the Norfolk Police Department approached from two different directions.
The primary group had 5-6 officers, and from the look on a Lieutenant's face Chet could tell that things were quickly becoming exponentially worse.
The Lieutenant came within inches of Chet and in a very condescending tone of voice stated that Chet had two choices: leave the park or go to jail.
While appearing to be as non-confrontational as possible (one hand holding his waffle cake and the other feeding his mouth) Chet began to reply that this must be a simple misunderstanding since he is permitted to carry.
Chet was cut off and, as the Lieutenant leaned in to intimidate him, the Lieutenant raised his voice and just about shouted that Chet had only two choices: leave immediately or be arrested.
Chet was still in shock and once again began to speak. Not waiting to hear what Chet had to say, the Lieutenant immediately told the other officers to arrest Chet!
In the following seconds Chet had hands all over him. One officer was tugging at Chet's pistol, having much difficulty removing it. Chet was worried about an accidental discharge with his family being literally feet away.
Other officers were pulling Chet's arms around his back and cuffing him. Chet offered no resistance.
Chet's wife began to speak and she was immediately pushed back by a black female Sheriff's deputy!
Chet's children were just about panicking watching their law-abiding father being stripped of his dignity while their mother was being forced back and being told that she may be arrested if she failed to comply.
Chet's wife attempted to record the scene on her cellular phone and was told she would be arrested if she did not secure her phone immediately!!!
The police then forcibly escorted Ms. Szymecki and her children off the property and left them standing on a street corner in Norfolk, all alone and without car keys (Chet had them and the police would not retrieve them). How very shameful.
A totally unnecessary use of force by the police on someone who was not threatening anyone, leaving a wife and young children on a street corner, totally unprotected.
Congratulations, Norfolk, those police-state tactics would have made Stalin smile warmly at you.
While being whisked away, Chet stated that he was aware that he was being unlawfully disarmed and detained and he demanded to be released immediately.
That didn't draw any response.
After a few minutes when Chet and the police were in a clear area where an Explosive Ordinance Disposal van was parked, along with many other police vehicles, Chet was instructed to face a wall.
Chet informed the officers that the handcuffs were agonizingly tight and repeated that he was not a threat to any of them and asked that the handcuffs be loosened.
Two officers were behind Chet holding him - one officer replied while squeezing the cuffs tighter that "they were not meant to feel comfortable." Nothing like having a sadist on the police payroll. I knew a couple of officers like this who worked the jail in San Antonio.
Chet was just sickened by the lack of professionalism and, as an ex-law enforcement officer and law abiding citizen, SO AM I!
After a half hour or so, and asking a few more times to have his cuffs be loosened, Chet was placed in the rear of a squad car. At that time Chet's left hand was totally numb and his right shoulder was aching.
Chet informed the officer in the police car that Chet was a veteran retired from active service and had sustained injuries in the line of duty - Chet's right arm being one of the injured areas.
Chet informed him that his right Brachial Plexus nerve group was torn from his spine and he had limited use and mobility of his right arm. Chet stated again that he simply wanted the cuffs behind his back to be readjusted.
The most the officer could offer was a suggestion on how to sit back in the squad car in a comfortable way. Needless to say - Chet, who had done nothing wrong, was very uncomfortable.
Several times one officer approached Chet and stated that "in a town of 200,000 or more like ours you cannot carry around a gun like you can in other places."
Chet told the officer that that law did not apply since: (1) the gun Chet was carrying was not classified as a "firearm" in that code section and (2) Chet had a concealed carry permit which rendered the entire section inapplicable to him.
Chet was told he did not know what he was talking about and Chet had no business carrying a gun while in Norfolk.
Speaking of being ignorant of Virginia gun laws, that officer needs remedial training. What a disgrace.
While in the cruiser an officer approached Chet and once again Chet was offered a choice: sign a summons or go visit the magistrate.
Being unfamiliar with the entire process and not understanding the gravity of the decision, Chet asked for additional clarification. The officer was polite and informed Chet that signing a summons was not an admission of guilt and he was simply promising to show up at a future court date. By not signing the summons Chet would go in front of a magistrate and this, along with the associated processing, would take many hours. Signing the summons would only take a few minutes and then Chet could be released.
DOES EVERYONE NOW UNDERSTAND WHY VCDL FOUGHT A BILL EARLIER THIS YEAR THAT WOULD HAVE ALLOWED OFFICERS TO THROW SOMEONE IN JAIL FOR ANY CLASS 1 OR CLASS 2 MISDEAMEANOR AT WILL? Any doubts in your mind that these officers would have done so to further humiliate and intimidate Chet if they were given the option?
Chet asked what would happen if the magistrate realized that this was all a simple mistake. The officer informed Chet that even if the magistrate released him, the police could issue a bench warrant and keep Chet in jail until his court date!!! Any doubt that these officers would have done so?
It seemed that signing the summons was the proper choice and Chet signed it. I agree.
Chet asked for his pistol to be returned and one of the officers stated that it was being held as evidence. Chet asked him for a receipt for his confiscated property. The officer stated that he had a pistol, one magazine, nine rounds of ammunition, and a holster. The officer said his verbal receipt was sufficient!
Like hell!
Chet was also forced to provide his Social Security Number - Chet asked if this were voluntary or mandatory - Chet was told it was mandatory. WRONG again, Norfolk Police! Chet was also forced to fingerprint his summons papers in four areas.
Arriving home almost two hours later, Chet was forced to skip a previously planned dinner engagement with another family and seek treatment at a local medical facility. Chet said he has a high tolerance for pain and discomfort but his right arm/shoulder and the back of his neck was just killing him.
Chet was examined by the doctor and prescribed medications. The doctor stated that since his arm has limited movement and the officers forced it into this unnatural position for over an hour, muscles and ligaments were probably strained.
Chet contacted me that evening and related the above story. The next morning I was on the phone to Norfolk City Attorney, Bernard Pishko.
Mr. Pishko proceeded to tell me that the public streets for the event were considered private property and thus guns could be banned. I told him that the "Festevents" organization that was running the festival was nothing but an arm of the City and could NOT ban guns. I also said that if the private property part were true, why had Chet not been arrested for trespass, but was instead charged under a City ordinance?
Mr. Pishko said I wasn't a lawyer and didn't know what I was talking about. He suggested that he could drop the charges against Chet, but said that perhaps this issue should be settled in court. Mr. Pishko said he was comfortable that the City would win.
Dream on, sir.
However, Mr. Pishko said the charges would be dropped and he kept his word. The charges were "Nollo Prossed" at Chet's court hearing on June 22nd and Chet is now in the process of getting his record expunged.
Chet was charged under City Code 42660 Section 3c (weapon/firearm in festival area).
In order to gather information the City may have on this incident, VCDL has already sent Freedom of Information Act requests to the
* Norfolk Sheriff, to find out which officer started this whole thing, along with any supporting information
* Norfolk Police, to get a copy of ALL radio traffic and other documents relating to Chet's arrest.
* Norfolk City Attorney, on the City's relationship with "Festevents" and to get a copy of the offending ordinance
The dollar amount of the lawsuit has not as yet been set, but I hope it is enough to get the City's attention.
--
Two other law-abiding gun owners, one black and one white, were each harassed TWICE by the Norfolk Police recently. Both were simply open carrying.
The black gun owner, an articulate, polite, 23 year-old who has helped at VCDL tables at various gun shows in the Tidewater area, had guns drawn and pointed at him by the police on the first occasion.
On the second occasion, he was handcuffed, even after complying with police demands to keep both hands on a nearby wall.
Both times the gun owner was released at the scene. But not after being unnecessarily humiliated and manhandled.
On the second occasion, the police officers told him that if they saw him open carrying again, they would handcuff him, run his gun for stolen, and then release him again!!!
Forget looking for real criminals, just harass the good guys, Norfolk. Unbelievable.
The white gun owner (Norfolk seems to be an equal opportunity harasser) was also detained and then released.
--
VCDL has been sitting quietly on this until Chet's charges were dropped. But these events cannot go unchallenged.
In addition to the lawsuit, VCDL will be attending a future Norfolk City Council meeting to denounce the oppressive harassment of Virginia's gun owners and demand an end to it.
The City of Norfolk and their police agents have a pattern of abusing the law and law abiding gun owners. If you or I violate the law, we risk fines and/or jail time. Why should local government officials be immune from punishment for passing and enforcing an ordinance in violation of state law? How long will the General Assembly let these rogue officials get away with this abuse of the law?
WE NEED A **HUGE** TURNOUT TO MAKE SURE CITY COUNCIL GETS THE MESSAGE LOUD AND CLEAR
I will advise when we have picked a date.
Tidewater - time to step up to the plate again.
Fixed that for you.
I'm out in Chesapeake Bay sailing. I am crossing the bow of a tanker.
I have the right-of-way as I'm under sail.
What do I do? Try to force the tanker to turn away and get run over ?
Or, do the prudent thing and tack out of his way.
I don't get it...your example might be more applicable if it was a police boat, and they threatened you with arrest if you didn't get out of the way...
GET IT?
Absolutely! The typical citizen gets pulled over less than once a year; police have these types of encounters every day.
There are two types of people; those who defend their rights, and those who enjoy the freedom that results from those sacrifices. Those who view such encounters pointless, even foolhardy (the freeriders) will never understand what motivates the defenders.
Only one time in the past, but I still would not carry in a school or a church, even after what happened.
The situation more than the distance, but neither of those would be as close as in the festival crowd.
No, the number of times a weapon WAS needed, not is needed.
While that may be the logical conclusion to you, isn’t isn’t to me, and probably many others. What you are saying is simply foolish.
Yes, we do. However, any move toward the firearm, regardless of it not being loaded, might have been cause to shoot him.
By his assuming a non-threatening stance, in front of witnesses ('But he was eating! his hands were nowhere near the holster!'), the police were deprived of the 'shoot first and ask questions later' scenario.
I have found that depriving overbearing police officers of the use of overbearing tactics causes a reduction in alert status and cools the situation.
Merely asking an officer if he intended to hit me with his flashlight, and then to please quit waving it at me in a physically htreatening manner, took the situation down a couple of notches one night, and resulted in dialogue, rather than confrontation. (OK, so he was new on the job).
Being polite, especially when it is drunk:30 out helps as well, even when you disagree with them.
We have to remember that asserting our rights can be done in a calm manner--which goes further to prove we are capable of carrying firearms without posing a menace to the rank and file and disarms the notion that armed citizens are a menace.
One techinque in 'out copping the cop', is to remain more professional. Tough to do with some of the more professional police officers out there. The testosterone charged storm trooper wannabe types will always be a problem, but the better police forces weed these out.
LOL! Works for me. I'm clueless too. :o)
I used to have an iron-clad rule to never consider moving to California, for any possible job offer. In the past two years...with various things occurring in Virginia...though there are countless job opportunities and the pay scale very inviting...I have added Virginia to my “never-move-to” list as well.
My best description of the state...it is a metro-urban-European style “county” where towns just continue on and on. The style of gov’t reminds me greatly of Europe with various taxes upon taxes, with the only evidence of something for your money are the roads. The representation and politicans that you see...are basically talking-dogs, and elected by support groups that pump up neighborhoods and towns. The crime? Whatever started in DC...has seeped over into Virginia and the cops are more worried about non-crime situations (like described in this topic) than real-crime. A retiree would have to be mighty foolish to settle upon the idea of moving or staying in the state, with a cost of living such as it is.
1. You should’ve noted those exceptions in your post. It seemed to be rather black-and-white.
2. Why is it that my policeman brother can carry his openly, and yet I cannot? Why should he be trusted more (especially if he is a plainclothes cop, or a mall security guy)? I am quite confident that I am not only more careful when I carry (I don’t leave a round chambered), and have more practice time on the range (he’s got kids and I don’t), but that I am also far less quick to draw it when my internal buzzer is tickled.
You'll be amazed to hear (um, sarcasm?) that I have not had the courtesy of a reply. But of course the Sheriff is an important public figger, while I am but a lowly serf.
It, of course, stands for Virginia Chauffeur's Drivers License. Sheesh., do I haf to explain ever'thang?
Or maybe Virginia Citizen's Defense League, an outfit run by an extremely highly motivated guy around whom it does not pay to be observed abridging or infringing the right to bear arms.
I was just quoting the goldarn email! I'll never do it again, I prawmiss!
As if a police officer is a paragon of virtue or some law abiding superhero who never does ill.
Now....wasn't it a police officer who was shagging a woman not his wife, knocking her up and finally killing her and his unborn?
"Law officers", and their apologist sycophant lackeys on FR, really ought to stay off of their high horses.
I do hope this citizen makes Norfolk pay dearly. And, while he's at it, it would be nice if his lawsuit ruined the lives of those LEO's who violated his God-given rights.
This latter especially concerns me. My thinking about wackos and terrorists (but I repeat myself) is that a nice Easter vigil with 700 people in Church would be a fine place to act out murderous insanity. Christmas would also be good.
In principle, (as very opposed to practice) I guess I wouldn't mind being killed for my faith. But I'm not sure being gunned down by a loonie counts. And in any event, it's not so much ME being gunned down but me cowering behind a pew after my wife is gunned down that gets my heart a-pumping.
And even though I am not currently a sworn officer, I still have this sense of responsibility for my "neighbor".
After the 9-11 a friend in a small community 90 minutes north by northwest of LA said that "of course" such a thing would never happen there. SO, if I were a gang of terrorists, having hit NY and DC, I would plan for Keokuk, Paducah, Ottumwa, and, say Burns, Oregon. I'd figure the way to keep everybody on edge would be to hit small places at Friday night high school football games so that people would think that no place was safe.
Now, of course, outside of being very lucky to spot a bomb vest and being very skillful in your headshot, there's not much you can do. But I figure very little beats nothing.
If this be paranoia, make the most of it.
Do you practice Israeli draws? I have only one experience of actually directing my weapon at someone and I was amazed at how little my mental wargaming helped. I'm trained to aim at the COM but I aimed right between his eyes. I'm trained for an isosceles stance, but I stood like a duelist.
Fortunately when I get an adrenaline dump I do NOT shake and time slows down. I was able to check behind and around him for collateral targets (there were none) and when he retreated, I, not having cuffs handy, reholstered and went back to directing traffic while I called 9-11.
I learned many many many things: while my judgment in drawing and especially in reholstering was good (and confirmed by my superiors) it was clear that muscle memory is really important and I didn't have enough good stuff programmed.
I also learned how lonely it feels in the middle of a road when some wacko is coming at you with a tire thumper. AND I learned of some of the weird perceptual changes that happen in an adrenaline dump. Chiefly distance dilated - and I let him get way closer than I should have. This effect seems to be my special distortion because a couple of weeks later I watched a lady fall asleep at the wheel (as I learned when I interviewed her) and drive off the road. As I watched it seemed to me that it all happened slowly and the curve where it happened was a long one. The next time I was there I was shocked to see how much shorter the stretch of road was than I remembered it to be.
I mention all this by way of supporting the many posts that advocate wargaming and rehearsal NOW, while the compost is nowhere near the air-conditioner. When it happens it is very likely to be a lot weirder than you expect.
And ONE reason the guy did not say "Yes sir, ma'am," was that he reports himself to have been shocked and surprised.
The rest of the story - from the Virginian-Pilot
(http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=128887&ran=175683)
Szymecki was charged with violating a local ordinance that the City Council had passed in May, which set up rules to govern Harborfest. Among them was a provision banning handguns and other weapons.
There's just one problem: A few years ago, the General Assembly barred localities from enforcing laws governing the carrying of firearms. That meant state law prevailed. And in Virginia, "open carry" is legal.
Localities today generally do not have the authority to restrict guns, said Mark Flynn, director of legal services for the Virginia Municipal League. A state law last amended in 2004 says localities cannot adopt or enforce laws regarding the purchase, carrying, possession, storage, or sale of firearms.
Szymecki was given a summons and released. When he showed up for court June 22, the case was withdrawn at the request of an assistant city attorney
I don’t understand why anyone would carry open, at a family festival event...
The case has enraged the Virginia Citizens Defense League, a gun rights group that has successfully challenged local gun restrictions around the commonwealth. Szymecki is a member. In the past the group has protested Norfolk's attempts to prevent the carrying of weapons in city parks.
http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=128887&ran=175683
Please don’t anyone argue that “the police will protect you”.
The sole function of the police is to document a crime, collect evidence, and apprehend suspects, all after the crime has been committed (after the fact). It is the responsibility of the citizens to protect themselves. Even if the police could respond in 30 seconds, it would be too late for the victim.
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