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To: Locke_2007
God is rightly filled with remorse for having killed his creatures. He even puts the rainbow in the sky to remind himself of his promise to the animals not to do it again. But rainbows are caused by the nature of light, the refractive index of water, and the shape of raindrops. There were rainbows billions of years before humans existed. 9:13

I'll reply to this one just because it caught my attention in the past. I believe Newton did his work in optics in part because of this verse. Newton was a believing Christian, and this is a pet theory of mine. You (or the website you cut and paste from) assumes that rainbows appeared prior -- but on what basis? I think Newton was curious as well and actually looked at light to try to figure out what God changed. Did he change the nature of condensation and refraction? The physical laws of the universe and light themselves? Clarity in the atmosphere? It's a curious question, but one that is not contradictory at all to nature -- ONCE you see the possiblity of miracle -- of supernatural action on the part of God. It's his universe, he can do what he wishes within it.

233 posted on 07/17/2007 6:14:41 PM PDT by Greg F (<><)
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To: Greg F

Errrr... Greg. Let me begin by stating that it confuses me terribly that God would ever do something that He would feel remorse for - since He is omniscient wouldn’t He realize that He was about to make a mistake? Why would an infinitely merciful being wipe out all life on Earth (Save Noah and the contents of the Ark) with a Flood? Couldn’t He simply will those who displeased Him out of existence, and spare the innocent? Wouldn’t that be more efficent? And merciful? Or couldn’t He have just designed things to work a little better in the 1st place?

Now, as to your question about light - there is absolutely no evidence - though scientists have looked very hard for it, that the speed of light, or, indeed, the nature of light itself has not changed since the 1st moment after the Big Bang - which was approximately 13 billion years ago. Furthermore, using telescopes, we can look at objects that are very near (from several light years away, to those billions of light years away, and the photons coming from each retain the same characteristics. The light coming from the furthest objects is billions of years old, so we can sample photons from near the beginning of time and these show absolutely no differences in characteristics from photons that are produced from a light bulb or any other source today. Again, you simply don’t understand science. There is no evidence that the laws of refraction have changed, either. Clarity in the atmosphere is a large variable dependent on many factors, like solar insolation rates that drive weather systems, dust, humidity, temperature, the local adiabatic lapse rate which results in cloud formation, the temperature-dewpoint spread, etc. As I have pointed out previously, Newton was a brilliant mathematician and theorist. He was however, like any one of us, a flawed creature and some of his theories and beliefs, such as his belief in God and religion, were just plain wrong. If you understand science, there is no reason to call upon any supernatural beliefs in order to explain the Universe or the phenomena which comprise it, including us.

For further reference:

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CE/CE411.html

Claim CE411:
The speed of light was faster in the past, so objects millions of light-years away are much younger than millions of years.
Source:
Norman, Trevor G. and Barry Setterfield, 1987. The Atomic Constants, Light, and Time. Flinders University of South Australia, School of Mathematical Sciences, Technical Report. http://www.ldolphin.org/setterfield/report
Response:
1. The possibility that the speed of light has not been constant has received much attention from physicists, but they have found no evidence for any change. Many different measurements of the speed of light have been made in the last 180 or so years. The older measurements were not as accurate as the latest ones. Setterfield chose 120 data points from 193 measurements available (see Dolphin n.d. for the data), and the line of best fit for these points shows the speed of light decreasing. If you use the entire data set, though, the line of best fit shows the speed increasing. However, a constant speed of light is well within the experimental error of the data.
2. If Setterfield’s formulation of the changes in physical parameters were true, then there should have been 417 days per year around 1 C.E., and the earth would have melted during the creation week as a result of the extremely rapid radioactive decay (Morton et al. 1983).
3. As an aside, some creationists assert that fundamental laws have not changed (Morris 1974, 18).
References:
1. Dolphin, Lambert, n.d. Table 1: Master Set of 193 Values of c. http://www.ldolphin.org/cdata.txt. See also http://www.ldolphin.org/constc.shtml
2. Morris, Henry M., 1974. Scientific Creationism, Green Forest, AR: Master Books.
3. Morton, G. R., H. S. Slusher, R. C. Bartman and T. G. Barnes, 1983. Comments on the velocity of light. Creation Research Society Quarterly 20: 63-65.
Further Reading:
Aardsma, Gerald E., 1988a, “Has the speed of light decayed?,” Impact #179, Institute for Creation Research, El Cajon, CA.

Aardsma, Gerald E., 1988b, “Has the speed of light decayed recently?,” Creation Research Society Quarterly 25(1): 36f.


236 posted on 07/17/2007 6:51:41 PM PDT by Locke_2007 (Liberals are Non-sentient life forms)
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To: Greg F

Since you mentioned the Biblical Flood - here’s a few more contradictions in that particular fairy tale:

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html#CG200

Use the above link, then scroll down to this section:

CH400-CH599: Flood
CH400: Source of Flood
CH401. Flood from vapor canopy.
CH410. Flood from comet.
CH420. Hydroplate theory.
CH430. Runaway subduction.
CH500: The Ark
CH500. Noah’s ark has been found.
CH501. We can expect to find Noah’s ark on Mount Ararat.
CH502.1. Noah’s ark may have been photographed on Ararat in 1949.
CH502.2. ERTS satellite photographed Noah’s ark in 1973.
CH503. Noah’s ark has been found near Dogubayazit, Turkey.
CH503.1. Anchor stones of Noah’s ark have been found.
CH503.2. The Turkish government officially recognized the site of Noah’s ark.
CH504.1. James Bryce found a 4-foot timber high on Ararat.
CH504.2. Navarra retrieved hand-hewn wood from high on Ararat.
CH504.3. Hardwicke Knight found soft wood timbers on Ararat.
CH505.1. Yearam guided three vile scientists to Noah’s ark in 1916.
CH505.2. An 1883 Turkish expedition found Noah’s ark.
CH505.3. Prince Nouri of Baghdad found the ark in 1887.
CH505.4. Hagopian visited the ark with his uncle around 1908.
CH505.5. Russian aviator Roskovitsky photographed the ark.
CH505.6. Resit, a Kurdish farmer, found the ark in 1948.
CH505.7. Local Kurds led Ed Davis to the ark in 1943.
CH505.8. Ed Behling was led to the ark in 1973.
CH508. Chinese treasure ships show Noah’s ark was feasible.
CH510-CH529: Animals on the Ark
CH511. Insects survived on floating vegetation mats.
CH512. All kinds could fit.
CH512.1. Juveniles of large animals were taken aboard.
CH512.2. The average land animal is the size of a sheep.
CH513. Animals hibernated on the ark.
CH514. The crew could feed and care for the animals.
CH514.1. Many animals do not require fresh or live food.
CH520. Pre-Flood animals lived in a uniform climate.
CH521. Animals’ exacting needs could have evolved after the Flood.
CH540-CH599: Effects of the Flood
CH541. Aquatic organisms could have survived the Flood.
CH542. Plants could have survived the Flood.
CH550. The geologic column was deposited by the Flood.
(see also CC364: Seashells on mountains.)
CH560: Fossils were deposited by the Flood.
CH561: Fossil order was determined by the Flood.
CH561.1. Fossils are sorted by ecological zonation.
CH561.2. Fossils are sorted hydrologically.
CH561.3. Fossils are sorted by the ability to escape.
CH561.4. Fossils are sorted by a combination of these factors.
(see also CC361: Fossils form quickly.)
CH570. High mountains were raised during the Flood.
CH580. The Flood shaped the earth’s surface in other ways.
CH581. The Grand Canyon was carved by retreating Flood waters.
CH581.1. Rapid erosion on Mount St. Helens shows Grand Canyon could form suddenly.
CH590. The Flood caused an ice age.


238 posted on 07/17/2007 7:10:30 PM PDT by Locke_2007 (Liberals are Non-sentient life forms)
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