[[We aren’t talking about a school of fish where they are all trying to get in the middle, we’re talkiing about intelligent, sophisiticated animals that have evolved behavioral patterns specifically to ensure the continuation of a genetic line.]]
Oh I’m not disputing that they aren’t ‘intelligent’ but the argument is, to what extent is their intelligence? Hard coding self preserving, calculation for self interest behaviour only? One can work acting in an automatic manner only, and do things that do indeed benifit the group, but the automatic actions of individuals are self cenetered even though they benifit the group.
[[and self-interest tempered by group needs are vital to this animal’s existance.]]
and
[[how is this different from humans?]]
Selfless actions- that’s how- A wolf may barg into a fight where his pack leader is battling another wolf, and he might die, but he didn’t do it to save the pack leader because he felt sorry for the leader and wanted to help, possibly risking his life selflessly- he did so because without a pack leader, life would be more difficult for him. A human, seeing another human in trouble, would barge into danger truly acting for the benifit and well being of the one htey are trying to help. A stranger bursting into a flaming house to save the residents does so out of compassion and with no thought of benifitting- An objective universal moral code drives selflessness and is what seperates our actions from thsoe of animals with no concept of an objective universal moral code. See the difference?
You still aren’t seeing my point, perhaps I’m not being clear. Rushing into a burning house (or attacking threats to the alpha wolf) are in effect the same behavior on a different scale. It is through behavior such as this that societal order is maintained and the species is preserved. Why is it so difficult to believe that altruism in animals is any different from altruism in humans? (We are animals, after all.) And why is it hard to see how behavioral mechanisms can be the result of natural selection in both animals and in humans?