Replies

what part of biological evolution disobeys the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

The part that insists that specified complexity can derive from random chaos unguided by a priori information.

The Neo Darwinist's concept of information gained by the organism along the way and operating on random change informed by survivability has the problem of explaining where the organism's specified original information came from in the first place.

Entropy is a measure of disorder (i.e. decay). Disorder is the natural direction of the universe sans information and energy.

From Index to Creationist Claims

Creationist Claim CF001:

The second law of thermodynamics says that everything tends toward disorder, making evolutionary development impossible.

Source:

Morris, Henry M., 1974. Scientific Creationism, Green Forest, AR: Master Books, pp. 38-46.

Response:

The second law of thermodynamics says no such thing. It says that heat will not spontaneously flow from a colder body to a warmer one or, equivalently, that total entropy (a measure of useful energy) in a closed system will not decrease. This does not prevent increasing order because
- the earth is not a closed system; sunlight (with low entropy) shines on it and heat (with higher entropy) radiates off. This flow of energy, and the change in entropy that accompanies it, can and will power local decreases in entropy on earth.
- entropy is not the same as disorder. Sometimes the two correspond, but sometimes order increases as entropy increases. (Aranda-Espinoza et al. 1999; Kestenbaum 1998) Entropy can even be used to produce order, such as in the sorting of molecules by size (Han and Craighead 2000).
- even in a closed system, pockets of lower entropy can form if they are offset by increased entropy elsewhere in the system.
In short, order from disorder happens on earth all the time.
The only processes necessary for evolution to occur are reproduction, heritable variation, and selection. All of these are seen to happen all the time, so, obviously, no physical laws are preventing them. In fact, connections between evolution and entropy have been studied in depth, and never to the detriment of evolution (Demetrius 2000).

Several scientists have proposed that evolution and the origin of life is driven by entropy (McShea 1998). Some see the information content of organisms subject to diversification according to the second law (Brooks and Wiley 1988), so organisms diversify to fill empty niches much as a gas expands to fill an empty container. Others propose that highly ordered complex systems emerge and evolve to dissipate energy (and increase overall entropy) more efficiently (Schneider and Kay 1994).
Creationists themselves admit that increasing order is possible. They introduce fictional exceptions to the law to account for it.
Creationists themselves make claims that directly contradict their claims about the second law of thermodynamics, such as hydrological sorting of fossils during the Flood.

Source

The part that insists that specified complexity can derive from random chaos unguided by a priori information.

There is no such claim. For one thing, the world is not chaotic but generally ordered at a macro level. For another, there is plenty of prior information to guide evolution. Natural selection depends on this for example.

BTW, why do you say "random chaos?" Do you know of a chaos that isn't random (in it's only reasonable physical sense of unpredictable)?

And why do you change this later to "random change informed by survivability?" Why do you equate chaos and "change informed by survivability?"

The part that insists that specified complexity can derive from random chaos unguided by a priori information.

Where does it state that the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics infers that "specified complexity" cannot arise? I am not aware of any physics text or resource that says this is what the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics states.

If the entropy of a system does not decrease more than the entropy of the system's environment increases, the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is not violated. Period. If the bricks organized in your diagram are offset by a greater increase in entropy in the environment, the 2nd Law is not violated. Any amount of organization can be achieved in a system, as long as the overall entropy, including the entropy of the evironment, without violating the 2nd Law.

You've demonstrated that life requires organization (i.e. a decrease in 'entropy'). No one disagrees with this. Now, what process (or processes) required by evolution requires a decrease in entropy of a living system (or systems) that cannot be offset by a greater increase in the entropy of the environment? If no such process exists, then the 2nd Law isn't violated.

I haven't seen anyone refer to such a process in specific terms. That's what is necessary to show that the 2nd Law is violated. Where does the 2nd Law cause a violation? Where's the net 'information increase', when the environment of the organism is included as part of the system? This can't be ignored when thermodynamics is considered.

A lot of people make blanket statements about thermodynamics and evolution. I'm waiting for someone to show how biological evolution requires a net decrease of the system of organisms plus the environment?

Are you sure the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics can be applied in this manner? Maybe the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics has nothing to do with this, and you're talking about some other law of science. If so, that's okay, but it's not the 2nd Law, and maybe you should refer to a different limiting law instead.