[ndt]

"Actualy(sic), I do have significant training in “the field,”"

I'm a forester by training (biology, genetics, soil science etc) and programmer by occupation with a number of years working in bioinformatics (although not currently)

So we should be able to have a productive discussion.

"And those who discovered the evidence, can you, number one, point with certainty to their beliefs?"

To whom do you refer? Modern or historical? Our conversation has gone from ancient Greece to modern times.

Actually it's rather moot. Their internal beliefs are irrelevant. It is their published hypotheses, theories, laws we need to be discussing.

"It never ceases to amaze me how quickly evolutionists jump to conclusions about those who oppose their opinions"

What assumption? That you may not know the field? You provided not a single bit of evidence to suggest you did. You pointed to historical "giants of science" as supportive of your position. That an appeal to authority and not only unscientific, it's not even good argument style.

You say you have training, I'll take you at your word, so lets talk about your evidence.

BTW I'll be gone for a couple hours so take your time.

[jim35]

[Actually it’s rather moot. Their internal beliefs are irrelevant. It is their published hypotheses, theories, laws we need to be discussing.]

Precisely my point, and you’ve done a good job of refuting your own original point.

[You say you have training, I’ll take you at your word, so lets talk about your evidence.]

Evidence. OK.

We exist, therefore we were created. It is therefore reasonable to deduce the existence of a creator.

Life is too complex to have simply sprung up from random forces, therefore it’s path must have been guided.

Life fits its environment in extremely complicated ways, far too well for it to have been the result of random mutations. It therefore must have been guided by some hand.

Aside from life, we have an entire universe of wondrous complexity, guided by inexorable laws which never change. All of these wonders cannot have emerged from nothingness, unless you believe in miracles. Such miracles engender the logical existence of God.

There is no other possible explanation for the origin of life. Only spontaneous creation could explain it.

And those are just the high points. I do not have the inclination to once again go into all of the multitude of evidence for creation, or all the refutations of evolution. If you stick around long enough on these posts, you are bound to be educated on them over time. God knows I’ve tried to explain these sensible conclusions many, many times, and I’m just plain tired of beating my head against the brick wall of evo devotion.