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Abolish the SAT
The American ^ | 13 July 2007 | Charles Murray

Posted on 07/14/2007 6:27:48 AM PDT by RKV

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Long and thought provoking article by one of the top experts in intelligence testing. Now that subject specific achievement tests are in place (AP and SAT II) it appears that the reason for the SAT has disappeared. This result surprised me (as one who did pretty well on the old pre-1994 SAT). Murray is no stranger to controversy (see his book The Bell Curve for details), and I believe he makes his case. As the parent of two kids (one in high school) who is not looking forward to the junior year round of tests (AP, SAT, SAT II, etc.) eliminating one of these which doesn't improve college's ability to predict academic performance seems like a good idea.
1 posted on 07/14/2007 6:27:50 AM PDT by RKV
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To: RKV

SAT helps kids with low GPA get into college...can’t fake SAT scores....inflating GPAs with ‘everyone’ gets an ‘A’ for attending class....


2 posted on 07/14/2007 6:30:27 AM PDT by dakine
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To: RKV

Don’t want to take the SAT? Go get your GED, score over 500 and enroll in any major university in the country. That’s assuming they aren’t discriminating against you because you are that filthy “White” color don’t ya know?


3 posted on 07/14/2007 6:32:43 AM PDT by EndWelfareToday (Live free and keep what you earn. - Tancredo or Hunter '08)
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To: dakine
“inflating GPAs with ‘everyone’ gets an ‘A’ for attending class....”

Imagine how much power public school teachers would hold over students if college entrance were determined only by high school GPA. And, imagine how much “social engineering” liberal teachers could do with that power.

4 posted on 07/14/2007 6:32:59 AM PDT by RavenATB
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To: dakine

Excuse my impertinence, but you didn’t read the article did you? Murray demonstrates that reasoning as a fallacy.


5 posted on 07/14/2007 6:33:02 AM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
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To: EndWelfareToday

One of the good things about our college admissions process is the role of junior colleges in providing a path to higher education for many folks.


6 posted on 07/14/2007 6:34:49 AM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
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To: RKV

“impertinence”

?

You don’t expect this ninth-grade educated person to look up that word....


7 posted on 07/14/2007 6:37:27 AM PDT by dakine
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To: RavenATB

Which is why Murray recommends keeping the subject specific achievement tests which are now required in addition to the SAT. Basically he’s saying we now rely on three measures (GPA, SAT and achievement tests [e.g. SAT II tests for physics, chemistry, etc.]), and you can get to the same result by using only GPA and achievement tests.


8 posted on 07/14/2007 6:38:21 AM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
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To: RKV
Eliminate it? Please.
With the worth of HS grades these days being a fraction above Zero, we need every tool that we can utilize to determine just what a student might have learned

Besides tolerance, PC, diversity is strength, and other Orwellian doublethink nonsense, that is.

I remember my 1970 SAT and also my 1969 PSATs very well.

And they were pretty high - and I do say so myself. :)

Rather than eliminating stand tests we should think harder about eliminating the government and it's union's, stranglehold hold our children.

IMO, they normally learn nothing at all except how to follow orders.

9 posted on 07/14/2007 6:38:25 AM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: RKV

I once thought that college level courses would ‘drift down’
to high school. Now, it is clear that elementary school
courses have ‘drifted up’.


10 posted on 07/14/2007 6:38:50 AM PDT by Diogenesis (Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum)
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To: dakine

Heh. But seriously, check out the article. The guy knows his stuff and has done the math.


11 posted on 07/14/2007 6:39:03 AM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
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To: dakine

I was thinking the same thing. The SAT’s are the only purely objective messurement. GPA’s can be tinkered with. Letters of recommendation can be complete fiction. It seems that the SAT’s or a standardized objectively graded national test is the only way.


12 posted on 07/14/2007 6:39:04 AM PDT by Dutch Boy
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To: bill1952

Read the article and I believe you will see that Murray makes his case.


13 posted on 07/14/2007 6:39:39 AM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
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To: RKV

There is nothing wrong with the S.A.T.. My nephew just scored a perfect S.A.T.. HE worked his arse off in school and he now showed it on the test. Lack of confidence and not wanting to be compared is not a good excuse for eliminating it. We do need a standard for comparison and the S.A.T. is as good as any.


14 posted on 07/14/2007 6:39:50 AM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) .)
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To: RKV

I read the article, thank you.


15 posted on 07/14/2007 6:41:14 AM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: Dutch Boy

I’m not sure what you know of the current college admissions process. In my bad old days, it was GPA, letters of recommendation and SAT. Today it’s that PLUS AP tests (subject specific) and SAT II tests (again subject specific). It’s definitely NOT the same as (ulp, dating myself here) the 1970s.


16 posted on 07/14/2007 6:41:33 AM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
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To: nmh

Did you read the article?


17 posted on 07/14/2007 6:42:12 AM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
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To: dakine
Of course the SAT scores are not inflated as well. It's not like when I took it years and years ago. Everything gets graded on a curve nowadays.

Anything is better than the admissions by race system that most colleges/government agencies use - the more minority points one has the more the place wants you. Go away white guy. Your type isn't wanted here.

18 posted on 07/14/2007 6:42:41 AM PDT by 69ConvertibleFirebird (Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.)
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To: RKV
There is nothing wrong with looking at a persons ability from many different angles.

Both of us did well with our S.A.T.’s when we were young and we both worked our tushes off. My husband was first in his class, talking about high school and I was second. My nephew who I mentioned was first in his class. If you work to the best of your ability it will show on any test.

Simply because you don’t score high, doesn’ mean you won’t do well in life. There are many honorable professions that pay well and don’t require stupendous S.A.T. scores.

19 posted on 07/14/2007 6:44:26 AM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) .)
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To: bill1952

BTW I agree that privatizing schools (a-z and K-18) is a great idea. For many reasons...


20 posted on 07/14/2007 6:45:12 AM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
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