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Lost track of those old assets? The state may have seized them [California]
Los ngeles Times ^ | 9 July 2007

Posted on 07/09/2007 5:57:37 AM PDT by John Jorsett

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To: wideawake
"I'll take my stand with the Founding Fathers."

Unfortunately for you, the Founding Fathers FAILED. They tried, and what they established worked for a long time--but the statists have finally succeeded in emasculating what they set up. It took them two hundred years, but they have won. What we have today is no longer the system the Founding Fathers set up.

The fact that you fail to understand the above points up your problem. So you go right ahead and "stand with them". I, on the other hand, stand with the principles they espoused---putting sufficient chains on government to keep it in check and protect peoples liberties and rights.

61 posted on 07/10/2007 3:12:40 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: Jack Hammer
Whatever.

You are aware, of course, that this is the patented retort of unemployed thirtysomething losers who live in their moms' basements - not an argument.

62 posted on 07/11/2007 4:36:55 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Sacajaweau

Yes, but “no action” would be impossible if interest payments are considered, no?


63 posted on 07/11/2007 4:40:44 AM PDT by Freedom4US
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To: Freedom4US

“No action” on the part of the owner of the account!! The obligation to maintain the account is to you. The rules on this are very old and the history really goes back to the beginning of our banking systems.


64 posted on 07/11/2007 5:11:13 AM PDT by Sacajaweau ("The Cracker" will be renamed "The Crapper")
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To: Wonder Warthog
Unfortunately for you, the Founding Fathers FAILED.

The Constitution remains and functions as the law of the world's freest, most prosperous and most powerful nation.

You are free to spout as much nonsense as you wish, but don't imagine that it confers on you any authority to stand in judgment of the Founders' accomplishments.

The fact that you fail to understand the above points up your problem.

I understand that in every generation there are carping critics who whine about how liberty is threatened because they are not getting the free lunch they believe they are entitled to.

Your complaints fall squarely in that category.

I reiterate: it has always been the case that if you abandon property and leave someone else with the uncompensated burden of tending it, you have forfeited it. This principle was firmly enshrined in the common law which the Founders drew upon in drafting the Constitution, and it does not contradict the Founders' principles in any way.

65 posted on 07/11/2007 5:30:04 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Sacajaweau

That would be interesting to read those ancient maintenance obligations.

It’s pretty complicated, that 14th century dutch stuff. Hell, a lot of people can’t maintain a checking account, which is about as simple as it gets. I’m always amused, sort of, when I hear someone say something like “Oh, I don’t have a checking account, because I just can’t do it..”

I agree of course that dormant accounts would be an accounting nightmare but understand it is the custodian of such accounts that should be held to the highest standards at finding the owners of these.


66 posted on 07/11/2007 5:37:34 AM PDT by Freedom4US
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To: Freedom4US
You have one account. They have 100's, 1000's, 1,000,000's. The rules were made to effect one person at a time.

AS IN ALL MATTERS, YOU have duties and obligations, too. One of them is sending "Change of Address" notices. This is where most people fail.

67 posted on 07/11/2007 5:55:19 AM PDT by Sacajaweau ("The Cracker" will be renamed "The Crapper")
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To: Sacajaweau

Yes, I agree with all that, and more. I’m jes’ sayin’. They have a fiduciary responsibility, and should be held to a higher standard, the monies held in escrow (assuming here)


68 posted on 07/11/2007 5:57:53 AM PDT by Freedom4US
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To: wideawake

You are aware, of course, that you are an anal retentive, emotionally retarded and amoral clown, intent on justifying theft in the name of The State. There’s no possiblity of argument with such as you, and I wouldn’t waste the energy required to try.


69 posted on 07/11/2007 6:38:22 AM PDT by Jack Hammer
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To: wideawake
"The Constitution remains and functions as the law of the world's freest, most prosperous and most powerful nation.

Wrong. We may currently be the most prosperous and most powerful, but our level of freedom is far less than we possessed even in my youth (early 50's). And the direction is toward even less freedom today.

"You are free to spout as much nonsense as you wish, but don't imagine that it confers on you any authority to stand in judgment of the Founders' accomplishments."

Here's a clue. My ancestors WERE the Founding Fathers. One signed the Declaration of Independence, was governor of a post-revolution state, and served in Geo. Washington's first administration. I think I know just a tiny bit about the founder's accomplishments. If the FF were alive today, they'd be appalled at how we have lost our way.

"I understand that in every generation there are carping critics who whine about how liberty is threatened because they are not getting the free lunch they believe they are entitled to. Your complaints fall squarely in that category.

Horse manure. I've earned my own way since high school. Free lunch, my ass.

"I reiterate: it has always been the case that if you abandon property and leave someone else with the uncompensated burden of tending it, you have forfeited it. This principle was firmly enshrined in the common law which the Founders drew upon in drafting the Constitution, and it does not contradict the Founders' principles in any way."

And "I" reiterate that it is the responsibilty of government to make a good-faith effort to contact the property owner before any such confiscation takes place. The courts have decided this multiple times (not just in the case the article refers to). In fact, the "registered letter" idea that I spoke about was a result of a recent confiscation case in Washington in which the "notice of confiscation" appeared only on the confiscating utility's website. The court found that that level of "notice" did NOT fullfil the "good faith effort" requirement.

So you're STILL wrong.

70 posted on 07/11/2007 6:44:34 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: Jack Hammer
You are aware, of course, that you are an anal retentive, emotionally retarded and amoral clown, intent on justifying theft in the name of The State.

There is no such thing as "The State." There is, however, a real state called the state of California.

It is governed by officials that are elected by its citizens - and sometimes those citizens pass laws that you don't like.

Talking nonsense about "Big Brother" and "The State" may sound really neat on anarchist blogs, but it's just hot air.

There’s no possiblity of argument with such as you, and I wouldn’t waste the energy required to try.

The most pathetic way of conceding the argument, but I will graciously accept the concession anyway.

71 posted on 07/11/2007 6:48:14 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake

“I will graciously accept the concession anyway.”

Somehow I knew you would...


72 posted on 07/11/2007 7:00:13 AM PDT by Jack Hammer
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To: Wonder Warthog
our level of freedom is far less than we possessed even in my youth

So you say. It would be interesting to see something measurable, rather than just anecdotal evidence.

My ancestors WERE the Founding Fathers. One signed the Declaration of Independence, was governor of a post-revolution state, and served in Geo. Washington's first administration. I think I know just a tiny bit about the founder's accomplishments.

I have to dissent from this bizarre thesis that knowledge is imparted through the biological process of reproduction rather than through education.

Free lunch, my ass.

Burdening someone with the uncompensated responsibility of custody of your property is a free lunch.

Whether or not you first obtained that property with the cash earned at your high school job is irrelevant.

And "I" reiterate that it is the responsibilty of government to make a good-faith effort to contact the property owner before any such confiscation takes place.

(1) The money spent to locate those who have abandoned their own property is real money that comes from the pockets of the abandoner's fellow citizens. Millions of dollars are already spent to locate these individuals who should be paying attention to their own property in the first place. It's a welfare program, and the more elaborate the "good faith" effort becomes the more money it costs the taxpayer.

(2) The law provides a means of notification. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

(3) Every citizen has a right to seek legal redress.

73 posted on 07/11/2007 7:01:56 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake
The offended party received the due process to which he was entitled.

I'm not sure the state Controller John Chiang agrees with you.

From the article:

Chiang said he realized there were problems with the program shortly after he took office in January. He said he was backing budget-related legislation that would send notices to owners before their property was taken.

74 posted on 07/11/2007 7:30:43 AM PDT by CharacterCounts
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To: wideawake
"I have to dissent from this bizarre thesis that knowledge is imparted through the biological process of reproduction rather than through education."

Y'know, every time you open your mouth (by proxy of typing), you prove yourself a bigger fool.

Does it perhaps occur to you that, as a result of the genealogical connection, I just "might" have spent a lot more time in STUDY of the period involved???

"Burdening someone with the uncompensated responsibility of custody of your property is a free lunch. Whether or not you first obtained that property with the cash earned at your high school job is irrelevant.

And, in order to be PROPERLY compensated, it is the DUTY of the party to contact the party whose property they are trying to steal.

"(1) The money spent to locate those who have abandoned their own property is real money that comes from the pockets of the abandoner's fellow citizens. Millions of dollars are already spent to locate these individuals who should be paying attention to their own property in the first place. It's a welfare program, and the more elaborate the "good faith" effort becomes the more money it costs the taxpayer."

Still wrong. Far from being a "welfare program", the confiscation of unidentified assets is a profit center for government.

I quite seriously doubt that the cost of such efforts at location come to even five percent of the value of the assets confiscated.

And in fact, I'd be in favor of a law to exactly that end--that a maximum of ten percent of the value of the asset targeted for confiscation MUST be spent in efforts to locate the proper owners, or his/her heirs. If the owner or heirs are located and claim the property, that cost of location to be deducted from what they realize from the asset.

The state cannot lose from such a law.

"(2) The law provides a means of notification. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

The courts are determining that the current "means of notification" are insufficient (in multiple recent cases).

"(3) Every citizen has a right to seek legal redress."

Which is what the guy in the article is doing--seeking redress from an inappropriate confiscation by government.

75 posted on 07/11/2007 3:21:24 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: calcowgirl; Carry_Okie
McClintock's been making mention (yesterday on KSFO) of this issue. http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_6437647
76 posted on 07/24/2007 7:04:10 AM PDT by CounterCounterCulture (Duncan Hunter for President)
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