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[Texas:]Bilingual program debated
San Antonio Express-News ^ | 07/07/2007 | Gary Scharrer

Posted on 07/08/2007 6:44:42 PM PDT by SwinneySwitch

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To: SwinneySwitch

Demand a border fence! Build it NOW!! Beef up the border patrol and close our borders!

U.S. Senate switchboard: (202) 224-3121

U.S. House switchboard: (202) 225-3121

White House comments: (202) 456-1111

Find your House Rep.: http://www.house.gov/writerep

Find your US Senators: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

Toll free to the US Senate:

1-800-882-2005. (Spanish number)
1-800-417-7666. (English number)

Courtesy of a pro-amnesty group, no less!!

Republican National Committee
310 First Street, SE Washington, D.C. 20003
phone: 202.863.8500 | fax: 202.863.8820 | e-mail: info@gop.com

Take a look at their hidden agenda: http://www.mexica-movement.org


81 posted on 07/08/2007 10:34:29 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Indianhead Division: Second To None!)
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To: Niteflyr

Yep!


82 posted on 07/08/2007 11:12:51 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker ( Hunter/Thompson/Thompson/Hunter in 08! "Read my lips....No new RINO's" !!)
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To: SwinneySwitch
Studies have shown that it costs about 40 percent more to educate limited English students. Texas gives school districts an extra 10 percent of state funding for such students.

Only 8 percent of limited English proficient 10th-graders passed all parts of the state's assessment test in the 2005-06 school year, according to the Texas Education Agency.


We spend 40% more on kids that don't speak English yet only 8% pass the state tests by 10th grade. Sounds like money down the toilet. Better to put that money towards the English-speaking American students who will actually become productive citizens.
83 posted on 07/09/2007 12:20:06 AM PDT by CottonBall
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To: rpgdfmx
and there is plenty of evidence that children educated in two languages maintain intellectual capacity well into adulthood.

Like the stats in the story that only 8% of the English-limited students passed the state tests in 10th grade?

We can't compare the studies done in other countries or with nuns with what's happening here. The main problem is we have uneducated illiterate parents with little respect for education invading and reproducing out of control. Their anchor babies can't compare to nuns with an average or high IQ that have been educated in multiple languages. We have the bottom of the barrel in IQ and in cultural motivation to deal with. The best we can do is send them back and quit wasting a fortune trying to teach a pig to sing.
84 posted on 07/09/2007 12:26:19 AM PDT by CottonBall
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To: Niteflyr
If you’re looking for results, though, intensive English is the way to go.

Absolutely. When we were in Texas, my on had a classmate in 6th grade from Russia. The boy spoke no English whatsoever when he joined the class and by the end of the year, he was going quite well and had a large vocabulary. Conversely, the kids in the bilingual program were STILL speaking only Spanish - after being in it from kindergarten!

It's only a way for the schools to get more money. Period.
85 posted on 07/09/2007 12:30:09 AM PDT by CottonBall
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To: norton
Imagine yourself in Bulgaria: Ask if anyone speaks English and you'll get some hopeful response, ask if anyone speaks Mex/Tex and watch for the vacant stare.

I am aware that the next step is to point to Switzerland, Belgium, of Lichtenstein where two languages are literally mandatory and many people speak three or four. I also submit that such Utopian multi-fluency is NOT the goal of 'bilingual immersion' anywhere in the USA.


Great points and great post!
86 posted on 07/09/2007 12:34:18 AM PDT by CottonBall
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To: kittymyrib

In Texas, non-hispanic whites are only a third of the age group 0-5.


87 posted on 07/09/2007 12:38:12 AM PDT by Aikonaa
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To: Niteflyr
when I said Spanish “may dominate the service sector but not ever at the level of big business”..I was playing devil’s advocate...I hope that never happens.

IMO, Spanish will never dominate any area other than services - and only because those working in those areas are the least educated among us. Looking at the countries that speak Spanish, which ones are at the top of the economic ladder? (That would be none.) Which ones are developing universities and educating their people ? (That would be Spain in the past, but the 3rd world Spanish-speaking nations aren't doing a thing to improve anyone's status.)

Didn't Mr. Newt say something about Spanish would remain the language of the janitors and gardeners?
88 posted on 07/09/2007 12:39:28 AM PDT by CottonBall
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To: Niteflyr

“f my children were to be multi-lingual it should be in the language of another first-world country”

Well, in all fairness, Spain is in fact a first world country.


89 posted on 07/09/2007 12:55:49 AM PDT by Logan1492
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To: CottonBall

T’anks...phonetic of course.


90 posted on 07/09/2007 1:22:47 AM PDT by norton
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To: Niteflyr
I visited my sons first grade class several times over the last semester.

I remember the first time that I sat in class a new little girl asked a question in Spanish and the teacher said, I can not understand what you are saying.

The little girl then repeated the question in broken English and the teacher answered her.

After wards, I had a discussion with the Superintendent of the school system and asked him why the no Spanish rule.

He said that many of the parents of the children attending our school system do not speak English well or not at all.

By requiring the children to speak English and read in English at home will ultimately help the parents learn to communicate better.

What is also surprising is that I have yet to talk with any Hispanic parents in town who do not support this rule 100 percent.

91 posted on 07/09/2007 12:00:50 PM PDT by OKIEDOC (Kalifornia, a red state wannabe. I don't take Ex Lax I just read the New York Times.)
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To: norton

Who is saying the kids don’t learn English? It’s saying the kids learn two languages, which “stretches” their little brains and makes ‘em smarter.

“Mexican” is not a dialect of Spanish (Spanglish may be a dialect... you have to take that up with the Academia Real), though one wonders which of the 27 recognized dialects of English in the United States is considered “proper” English. Except for maybe specific vocabulary words, Mexicans of all social classes speak proper Spanish, though a few Nahuatl words (jitomate) are sometimes used in place of the Spanish one (which, like the English one, is Nahuatl based). Social class accents are rare in Spanish... one can’t always tell if one is speaking to a doctor or the receptionist on the phone, for example.

Someone up above had the oddball idea that “Spanish is not a ‘first world’ language.” What nonsense. And, the nuns in the Alzheimer’s study (a German family name, used in both English and every other language for a particular disease) often spoke oddball languages like Ukrainian or Sicilian as their other language.

Finally, why are people assuming South Texans who speak Spanish are immigrants? In my county, Spanish has been the majority language as long as the county has been part of the United States.


92 posted on 07/09/2007 1:08:57 PM PDT by rpgdfmx
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To: SwinneySwitch
"Some believe that English immersion is the most effective approach."

As one who has adopted a child with a vocabulary of 10-20 English words and having the child now capable of reading on a 3rd grade level in two years, I can attest for some kids, immersion is the only way they'll learn English sufficiently.

Other kids' greatest problems lie where they return to a home setting in which other family members are English illiterate.

93 posted on 07/09/2007 1:18:55 PM PDT by azhenfud (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: Niteflyr

No hypocracy.

Even the Chinese, of which a quarter of the Earth’s population speaks Mandarin (spoken by more people than any other language) recognize that in international commerce, medicine, and science English is the common denominator language of success.

But then if you’ve ever tried to read Chinese arithmatic, it’s understandable....


94 posted on 07/09/2007 1:29:38 PM PDT by azhenfud (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: rpgdfmx
Four semesters of Spanish, in Tucson, allowed me to converse poorly with mexicans both local and in mexico...it's different enough.
So long as the community converses in Spanglish (Tex-Mex) that will be the dominant form and not university Spanish.
Long association with our local bilingual education shining star taught me that results are shaped to enhance the school and not the kids OR their proficiency. (He ran laughing away from any form of bilingual education as soon as he improved his job position enough [university tenure track] to do something he considered intellectually honest.)
My Latin & South American neighbors demanded that the school teach their kids in English - although neither has a wife who speaks English any better than I speak Spanish.
The extended family across the street hangs up a mexican flag whenever they have a chance - and neither of my immediate neighbors speak to them unless it can't be avoided.
I know South Texas fairly well and have frequently defended those who had family on this side long before the current mess hit the fan - just as I've defended similar stories, legal immigrants, and recipients of the last amnesty here in California.
Using both languages has been a tradition just about anywhere south of Austin forever - that makes it quaint, not right. Also note that I have lived in both California and Arizona as well and the same does not hold true in those states. Although historically you'd have heard more localized Spanish in California and Arizona than in Georgia - Georgia, New Hampshire, etc. are now having to 'press 1 for English' as well - and that accounts for much of the current outcry.

Only one point I tried to make is that 'bilingual' means 90% mexican and as the demands of illegals increase greater and greater numbers of American kids will be learning some mix of debased English and debased Spanish. Even fewer of them than today will take up German, Chinese, or Japanese - each of which has more value in the world than does border Spanish. As it is we have to rely on native born speakers for most intelligence gathering and most business intercourse - I don't think all those Gringo kids are going seriously challenge the millions of "Native Spanish" speakers we've allowed in. The entire concept is merely an appeasement to the uninvited and a means to further divide the populace.

A second point I should have made, and made clearly, is that mexico is our enemy, not its people. However, when a crappy third raate country uses its citizens against my country, I expect collateral damage on both sides and, so far, its been our side taking the hits.

And, a total of none of the 27 dialects of English in the US are considered "proper". I don't think there are any "proper" dialects left in the UK for that matter.

95 posted on 07/09/2007 1:45:24 PM PDT by norton
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To: SwinneySwitch

This sounds innocent enough, but it has several drawbacks: Learning English is necessary if you want a good paying job. Those who don’t end up in the bottom quarter. English binds us together as a nation, without it we’re Babylon redux...(and if kids want to learn Spanish, they can sign up for Spanish courses.) Hispanic kids make up 50 per cent of school drop outs, not only in the west/southwest, but in the northeast.

When polled, they said the top three reasons for dropping out were peer pressure, to get a job (to augment family income), and something else inane, which I can’t remember at the moment. They were asked if school work was too hard, and they said NO. They should learn English and get real. Life is tough...unless you’re Paris Hilton, and if you can’t speak English, it’s even harder.


96 posted on 07/09/2007 1:55:57 PM PDT by hershey
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To: azhenfud
No hypocrisy. Even the Chinese, of which a quarter of the Earth’s population speaks Mandarin (spoken by more people than any other language) recognize that in international commerce, medicine, and science English is the common denominator language of success. But then if you’ve ever tried to read Chinese arithmetic, it’s understandable....

I don't think I made a clear point...and I agree with what you say. I felt it was hypocritical for this English-speaking Hispanic journalist to be vehemently against making English mandatory even though he admits you can't make it in this country without it. If what he says is true and I agree it is...why would he be so against wanting to make it required? Human nature being what it is you can come to this country and immerse yourself in a community that does not speak much English and NEVER learn the language. He wanted to keep things that way...insuring there are large groups of people here who will "never make it" as he put it...

97 posted on 07/09/2007 10:15:45 PM PDT by Niteflyr ("People get the leaders they deserve" (hear that Mexico??))
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To: Logan1492
Well, in all fairness, Spain is in fact a first world country.

:o)...Yes but Latin countries in general are not

98 posted on 07/09/2007 10:19:24 PM PDT by Niteflyr ("People get the leaders they deserve" (hear that Mexico??))
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To: Logan1492
Well, in all fairness, Spain is in fact a first world country.

Name the latest technological advancement that originated in Spain? Medicine? Physics? I dabble in sub-atomic physics theory and don't find major science papers to be written in Spanish or theory advancements coming from Spanish physicists/labs.

99 posted on 07/09/2007 10:27:47 PM PDT by Niteflyr ("People get the leaders they deserve" (hear that Mexico??))
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To: SwinneySwitch

“English was not the first language of more than 731,000 children attending Texas public schools last school year. Those children, identified as “limited English proficient” students, spoke more than 100 foreign languages, although the most common by far was Spanish — spoken by 92 percent of the non-English speakers.”

Hmmmm. How many children in Texas schools are children of illegal immigrants?


100 posted on 07/10/2007 3:31:49 PM PDT by WOSG ( Don't tell me what you are against, tell me what you are FOR.)
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