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To: Utah Girl
I didn't say that Haun's Mill wasn't a great tragedy. I said that the women and young children there, with the exception of the 10-year old who was murdered, were not massacred.

Three boys were hiding and shot.

How old were these boys and were they combatants?

As I'm sure you know, there were atrocities committed by both sides in Missouri. The Missourians committed more, but that was because they had far greater numbers, and had greater opportunity to do so.

It is notable that Mormons make great play out of the "extermination order" issued by the Gov, but seldom mention that his order was in direct response to an inflammatory Mormon sermon threatening extermination of the Missourians. It is also notable that the Mormons were NOT exterminated, despite losing the war and being at the mercy of the Missourians.

It appears to me that the gentile women and children murdered at Mountain Meadows, in the most atrocious and treacherous way imaginable, are a multiple of the Mormon women and children intentionally murdered by their gentile opponents in all the years of conflict in MO and IL.

As stated earlier, I agree that many women and children doubtless died as a result of hardships induced by being expelled from their homes, and that some may have died as collateral damage. But that is quite different from intentionally shooting down women and children, as I'm sure you agree.

An estimated three hundred Church members lost their lives during these troubled times in Missouri when the Missouri settlers drove them out of the state at gunpoint.

I've been looking for years for a documented compilation of these deaths: who, when, where and the circumstances of each. Do you have a source for such a compilation? Surely somebody has compiled one.

207 posted on 07/11/2007 5:41:25 AM PDT by Sherman Logan (It's not the heat, it's the stupidity.)
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To: Sherman Logan

So it was OK for the Missourians to ride into Haun’s Mill (I’ve read accounts of the numbers being 230-250 men) and start shooting at the families? There had been a truce negotiated on Sunday, Oct 28th. The militia sent a representative who negotiated with the Mormons. The Mormon settlers also decided upon a defense and 28 men were armed and ready for anything that might happen.

The militia rode into Haun’s Mill at about 4 pm (there were about 30-40 LDS families.) Remember, the families thought there was a truce. David Evans, a leader in the community ran towards the militia, waving his hat and calling for peace. Alerted to the militia’s approach, most of the Latter-day Saint women and children fled into the woods to the south—while most of the men stayed behind to fight, entrenching themselves in the blacksmith shop. There were about 36 men in the blacksmith shop, which had large spaces in between the logs. The Missouri militia shot the men inside the blacksmith shop (kind of like shooting fish in a barrel.) Those wounded or who had surrendered were shot at point blank range. Several women were chased, beaten, and raped. One 12 year old girl was shot in the hand as she held up her hands. She started running and hid behind a log and the men kept shooting at her. She survived, but there were at least 20 bullet holes in the log.

The three boys were found hiding in the blacksmith shop. So they were part of the defense, however, one militia man noted that most of the Mormons were unable to even get to their guns, or get them into a position to fire them.

Many historians have concluded that the extermination order given by Governor Lilburn Boggs was not the cause of the Haun’s Mill Massacre. It had been issued 3 days earlier, so there was probably no way for the militia to hear about it. However, I find it disturbing that some people find it OK that the order was issued and no one was killed because of it. And the order was issued because of a speech? That was the only time in American history that such an order was issued by a governor.

And yes, Sidney Rigdon gave the infamous Salt Sermon after he had been tarred and feathered. It was not a good thing to do. However, there is no record of any Mormons going out and killing anyone after that sermon. There was a battle at a creek (the name escapes me right now) that was instigated by the Mormons. However the leader was killed and I think a couple of Missourians were also.

It is eerie to read of the coincidences of the Haun’s Mill Massacre and the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Both were despicable tragedies, perpetrated by fear and misunderstandings.

And I do agree deliberately shooting the women and children at Mountain Meadows was cowardly and those men will pay for their actions in the hereafter.

Thousands of Mormons were driven from their homes in Kirtland Ohio, Missouri (twice), and from Nauvoo. They would lose their homes and businesses. My great-great-great grandfather was born in Missouri and was one of the first converts in that area. He and his family were driven out of Missouri and in his journal he records watching many of the poorer Saints trudging out of Missouri, leaving bloody footprints behind.

After the Mormons were driven out of Nauvoo, Illinois (early than planned), many died crossing the Mississippi river. Many died at Winter Quarters.

I can contact a church history professor I know about the numbers and if there is anything published. However, for me personally, I try to forgive those who were persecuted and killed on both sides.


208 posted on 07/11/2007 8:25:14 AM PDT by Utah Girl
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