Replies

montag813 - "Yeah, so sick of tight-ass moralists..."

" Continental Congress

Whereas true religion and good morals are the only solid foundations of public liberty and happiness: Resolved, That it be, and it is hereby earnestly recommended to the several states, to take the most effectual measures for the encouragement thereof, and for the suppressing theatrical entertainments, horse racing, gaming, and such other diversions as are productive of idleness, dissipation, and a general depravity of principles and manners.

-Journals of the American Congress: From 1774 to 1788, (Washington: Way and Gideon, 1823), Vol. III, p. 85. This resolution passed on October 12, 1778.

You think our founding fathers were "tight-ass moralists"?

Extremely Extreme Extremist - "Shhh! Hyper-moralists are immune to the laws of supply and demand."

Benjamin Rush

[Gaming] "This disorder seizes gentlemen in some instances before breakfast in the morning, and continues with only short intervals for meals, till 11 o'clock at night. It affects some people in the night as well as the day, and on Sundays as well as week days. . . . This madness is of a destructive tendency, and often conducts persons afflicted with it to poverty, imprisonment, and an ignominious death."

-The Selected Writings of Benjamin Rush, (New York: Philosophical Library, 1947), p. 215. "On the Different Species of Mania.

HitmanLV - "...there is a wing of conservative types who are notably prudish."

"The last thing I shall mention, is first of importance and that is, to avoid gaming. This is a vice which is productive of every possible evil, equally injurious to the morals and health of its votaries. It is the child of avarice, the brother of inequity, and father of mischief. It has been the ruin of many worthy families; the loss of many a man's honor; and the cause of suicide. To all those who enter the list, it is equally fascinating; the successful gamester pushes his good fortune till it is overtaken by a reverse; the losing gamester, in hopes of retrieving past misfortunes, goes on from bad to worse; till grown desperate, he pushes at everything; and loses his all. In a word, few gain by this abominable practice (the profit, if any, being diffused) while thousands are injured."

-The Writings of George Washington from the Original Manuscript Sources, 1745-1799, (Washington, D.C.: United States Government Printing Office, 1938), Vol. 26, p. 40. This advice was given to by Washington to his nephew in a letter on January 15, 1783.

moonman - "A Christian or Islamic 'fundamentalist' mentality tells one, "No viewing of porn, having anal or oral sex, no drug use, no tobacco use and no alcohol"

Being moral, free and responsible in the choices we make that affect our family, community and country is one thing, having a fanatical theocratic religious/state actor mandate their choices is another.

As a prudish, tight-ass moralist, damnable Bible thumping busybody, I, for one, don't appreciate your trying to blend the two.

"[W]e have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. . . . Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams

"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime & pure, [and] which denounces against the wicked eternal misery, and [which] insured to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." -- Charles Carroll - Signer of the Declaration of Independence

"[T]he primary objects of government are the peace, order, and prosperity of society. . . . To the promotion of these objects, particularly in a republican government, good morals are essential. Institutions for the promotion of good morals are therefore objects of legislative provision and support: and among these . . . religious institutions are eminently useful and important. . . . [T]he legislature, charged with the great interests of the community, may, and ought to countenance, aid and protect religious institutions—institutions wisely calculated to direct men to the performance of all the duties arising from their connection with each other, and to prevent or repress those evils which flow from unrestrained passion." -- Oliver Ellsworth - Chief-Justice of the Supreme Court

"We profess to be republicans, and yet we neglect the only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government, that is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by the means of the Bible. For this Divine Book, above all others, favors that equality among mankind, that respect for just laws, and those sober and frugal virtues, which constitute the soul of republicanism." -- Benjamin Rush

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of man and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice?"

"And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. It is substantially true, that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who, that is a sincere friend to it, can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?" -- George Washington

None of that stuff necessarily refutes what was posted. Masterful copy & paste job, though.

Video of interview with former Attorney General Ed Meese, who chaired the President’s Commission on Pornography, which came to be known as the Meese Commission.

Go to: http://www.fulldisclosure.net/flash/423_Meese_preview.htm

Using the bar at bottom, fast forward to 3:18 of the interview.

Sorry for the timeline whiplash, which will obviously be a shock for some posting on this subject. This was back when being a “conservative” — at least as defined by the Reagan Adminstration — meant being against the distribution of pornography.

and to prevent or repress those evils which flow from unrestrained passion

I notice you did not quote Benjamin Franklin, one of the greatest of Americans. His passions were quite unrestrained when it came to women. He also attended church regularly, but only to maintain expedient business prospects for himself. Was he an immoral man? On what basis do you presume to judge him, or any other man who may have personal vices, but yet acts morally and ethically, or even heroically in the public sphere. I do not believe it is any of your or CBN's business what lonely businessmen or women watch in the privacy of their hotel rooms. And I do not believe the Founders whom you cite would approve of such puritanical restrictions as you advocate.

and to prevent or repress those evils which flow from unrestrained passion

I notice you did not quote Benjamin Franklin, one of the greatest of Americans. His passions were quite unrestrained when it came to women. He also attended church regularly, but only to maintain expedient business prospects for himself. Was he an immoral man? On what basis do you presume to judge him, or any other man who may have personal vices, but yet acts morally and ethically, or even heroically in the public sphere. I do not believe it is any of your or CBN's business what lonely businessmen or women watch in the privacy of their hotel rooms. And I do not believe the Founders whom you cite would approve of such puritanical restrictions as you advocate.