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To: ModelBreaker; Old Student
I sincerely apologize to you and all others I may have offended by my angry remarks.

While a non-believer, I am not typically the stereotypical angry – anti-god, anti-religious zealot Atheist.

Even as a non-believer, I more often than not find myself sincerely defending Christians and their beliefs as there are a lot of good things in those teachings and a lot of good people practicing that faith.

After re-reading the article, I can see that, while it did hit one of my sore spots, I did over react. At the time of my post, I was in an emotional state to start with, but that is a poor excuse for lashing out. I should not have done that and I sincerely regret my comments in that they may have caused more anger and contention.

With that being said, I try to keep an open mind to everyone’s beliefs even if they are not my own. That’s not to say I accept the beliefs of the radical Muslim any more than I do some radical Christians (like the Westboro’s) or radical Jews or radical Atheist or radical whatevers. However when radicalism equals blanket irrational hatred toward others, then I reject that no matter who or where it comes from.

I’ve known some very good people of many various non-Christian faiths including some Muslims, who bear no resemblance to the radicals and in fact hate the Imams and terrorists for their actions as much as you or I do. On 9/11, a very kind beautiful young woman who I worked with who was Iranian and Muslim by her mother and father’s birth, but an American by her birth, sat and held me in her arms as we both cried together watching the Twin Towers fall live on TV and I remember her saying to me, “Why would someone do this to us?”

You see, I do have a problem when people try to rationalize the irrational behavior of other sub-humans as being “God’s” will like “Perhaps God is telling all of Europe to stop following humanistic and atheistic philosophies.”

In saying something like that, I interpret that to mean that all the victims and families of terror attacks are somehow responsible for their own deaths in that they were not following the same spiritual path as the author.

I also have a problem in bring up century old angers and resentments as justification for perpetuating more hatred today because that’s just what the terrorists do. I personally strive to rise above that.

If I were ever to believe in a supreme being, then that being would have to be one who judges us individually on our own merits and daily actions and how we treat one another in life and not what particular rituals we choose to follow, what language we speak or what race we belong to.

If I were ever to believe in a supreme being then that belief would have to allow that God has many faces and more than one name and that there is but more than one very narrow path that leads to God.

In my 46 years, I’ve known some very law abiding, compassionate, caring, self-sacrificing folks who were Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and even some Wiccans and Atheists along the way. And I’ve also known a few, narrow minded, angry, self obsessed, materialistic, hate filled so-called Christians who go to church every Sunday, give their Tilth and can quote from the Old and New Testimate on command, but treat their employees and fellow human beings, outside their own church like complete garbage. (I worked for one of these a-holes so I know first hand the hypocrisy)

So tell me, when standing in line at the Pearly Gates, who in your opinion, gets in?
23 posted on 07/04/2007 4:41:20 PM PDT by Caramelgal (Rely on the spirit and meaning of the teachings, not on the words or superficial interpretations)
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To: Caramelgal

Don’t ask us, ask the one who said, “I AM: I am The Way, I am The Truth, I am The Light. No man (or woman) comes to The Father but by Me.” Here’s a hint: if star trek transporters were a reality and only one man held the ‘go’ key, who could get you in and out of the transporter safely? Talk to Him, not us little folk. And ya know what?... He’s listening for your inquiry! You, your own personal inquiry, He’s listening for you to ask ... and it shall be opened unto you, not me or them, Y O U . Who gets in? Ask the guy with the key to the transporter, madame. He’s the ONLY one with whom you have to deal.


24 posted on 07/04/2007 5:00:33 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for those in the womb.)
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To: Caramelgal
If I were ever to believe in a supreme being, then that being would have to be one who judges us individually on our own merits and daily actions and how we treat one another in life and not what particular rituals we choose to follow, what language we speak or what race we belong to. If I were ever to believe in a supreme being then that belief would have to allow that God has many faces and more than one name and that there is but more than one very narrow path that leads to God.

Thanks for the nice post. I'm just glad I've never popped off and posted :)

Just a quick response to the quoted language. Don't let this concept stand in your way because this concept assumes there is no God. If there is a God, He gets to make the rules. Your language quoted above assumes that you get to determine whether the rules are OK. Or, in other words, that you get to determine the rules. This language assumes its conclusion and wraps it up in a soundbite.

Thus, your language assumes the fundamental premise of humanism (man makes up his own rules) but clothes that assumption in an apparent willingness to consider God. But given the assumption, your language is a complete block to belief.

Whether you like God and his rules is a completely different question than whether God exists. Don't confuse them. Frankly, there are parts of Christianity that I would change if I had the power because I don't like them. One of the things I don't like is the same thing that bothers you--Jesus' statement of that "noone comes to the Father but through me," and that "all power of judgement over creation has been given to Me." I would prefer it be different.

But having studied the New Testament pretty closely and the associated history of early Christianity, I'm pretty certain that there was a man named Jesus who claimed to be the Son of God and then backed it up with endless miracles, by dying and coming back from the dead, and by granting miraculous powers to his Apostles. There's no other credible way to explain the New Testament and that history. And I'm a double blind kind of scientist.

Given that, I really have to take what He said seriously, whether I like it or not. So it's me that had to change to get right with God. Not God that has to change to get right with me.

25 posted on 07/04/2007 5:59:59 PM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: Caramelgal
I'm going to add one more thing because your posts remind me so much of myself. The scummy guy who was crucified next to Jesus acknowledged on the cross that Jesus was the Son of God. Jesus response was that he would be with Jesus in paradise that night. That's in Matthew if you are interested.

The lesson I took from that is that no matter what your path and no matter how long you put it off, it's never too late, so long as you breath. And that was a good thing for me. I came to the cross kicking and screaming after exhausting all other possibilities.

All you have to do is admit you are a sinner, ask for forgiveness, confess Jesus as the Son of God and ask him in. Life is a lot better the sooner you do that. But it's never too late. It's possible that someday you might want to remember that.

26 posted on 07/04/2007 6:11:20 PM PDT by ModelBreaker
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