Why the FairTax Army Grows

Americans For Fair Taxation ^ | June 22, 2007 | Ken Hoagland

[goldstategop]

Getting rid of the income tax is the elimination of socialism in this country. The Fair Tax accomplishes that and that's why its opponents fear it.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[RFC_Gal]

Don’t forget that under FairTax math that 23% “sales tax” equals about a 31% tax rate the way sales tax is currently figured.

[goldstategop]

When you eliminate every other federal tax, Americans' tax burden falls substantially. It would fall even more if the states can be convinced to eliminate their income tax as well.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[A_Tradition_Continues]

It Appears "Fair Tax" is based upon the assumption retail prices would decline due to pass along taxes we currently pay being eliminated. Who is going to stake an entire tax system on assumptions of lower prices by end sellers. Historically, that just doesn't happen. Additionally, how do you handle state, county and city taxes? What about Special District taxes? Are you willing to have 23% added to your healthcare premiums? Are you willing to have that $20K car cost you an additional $4600.00 up front? How many tens of thousands of federal employees will it take to operate the monthly rebate scheme?

Sorry, this just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[goldstategop]

The point of the matter is under the income tax, no one sees how much government actually costs them. Under the Fair Tax, the sticker price is in the open and visible every time you open your wallet to buy something. Its a very powerful reminder that government isn't free; its expensive. I would say a truly free people deserve to decide how much they want to pay for all those government programs. Right now, they don't think it costs them anything. Quite put simply, the Fair Tax will stop political demagoguery dead in its tracks and make our political debates honest. We could all benefit from such a change.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[The Pack Knight]

When a retail business's costs go down due to the elimination of its income tax burdens, what's to stop it from lowering its prices in order to grab a larger market share from its competitors? What's to stop its competitors from following suit in order to regain their market share?

Did the laws of price competition suddenly get revoked, or are you saying that all businesses are involved in price collusion? The market has worked for centuries. No reason it won't continue to work under the FairTax.

[Postman]

This implies great trust in politicians. If we give them the power to impose a national sales tax, what prevents them from also reimposing just a tiny, wee, little income tax to cover some “essentials not covered by revenues”?? I can see a situation like the UK with a high VAT and a high Income Tax and an intrusive Inland Revenue. Also, the idea of “give them your money so they can determine the amount you get back” is fraught with multiple possibilities for abuse. I much prefer a flat tax on income with details to be quibbled about set. somehow, as an Amendment to the Constitution. Sorry, Fair Taxers.

[goldstategop]

A flat income tax is just a flattened income tax. I'm not interested in improving the income tax; I want to abolish it completely. A government that collects taxes on income wants to know everything about your personal affairs. Quite frankly, I think that should be NONE of its business. That, among other reasons, is why I support the Fair Tax.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[upchuck]

Columbia, South Carolina ping.

South Carolina Ping

Add me to the list. / Remove me from the list.

Please welcome our newest South Carolina ping list member, estrogen.

[Sergio]

Good stuff. Thanks for posting.

[lewislynn]

Additionally, how do you handle state, county and city taxes? What about Special District taxes?

The Fairtax taxes them. The Fairtax is "23% of the gross payments for taxable property or services"(including itself).

Are you willing to have 23% added to your healthcare premiums? Are you willing to have that $20K car cost you an additional $4600.00 up front?

it's actually 30% added. 23% is a clever lie. The tax on a $20,000 car would be $6,000 (rounded). The gross payment for the car would be $26,000...$6,000 is 23% of the gross payment.

Here's how it would really work:
Sticker = $20,000
State sales tax (7%)= $1400
State license fee = $500
Insurance = $1200

Sub-Total = $23,100
Federal Fairtax @ 29.87% = $6,900

Total out the door price of your new $20,000 car = $30,000 (gross payment)

.23 X(of) $30,000 (gross payment) = $6,900 (Fairtax)

For how long did you want to finance your tax?
Speaking of that, if the interest rate on your new car is above the fed fund rate (rarely are they not) you would pay 30% tax on the rate over the fed fund rate...the rate would be determined every month.

Oh, you decided to lease instead? There's a 30% tax on that as well.

[lewislynn]

When a retail business's costs go down due to the elimination of its income tax burdens, what's to stop it from lowering its prices in order to grab a larger market share from its competitors?

Following that logic prices should be down across the board since the Bush tax cuts...Are they?

[Postman]

You are, of course, entitled to your hopes and beliefs. I trust politicians as far as I can throw an M1 Abrams tank and legitimizing the “fair” tax, merely gives them another venue in which to work their creative mischief to the detriment of nearly each and every one of us. It won’t eliminate the taxing bureaucracy and, I’m pretty certain that the “government” (or any good hacker, for that matter) already knows much more about you than you’re aware of or would want them to know. I’m afraid that the privacy genie is already out of the bottle and has been for a long time.

If you haven’t read it already, post #31 is very interesting.

Be well.

[Postman]

Additionally, the “ifs” “ands” and “wherefores” are mind numbing. Read the examples given on page 9 of the proposed legislation. Read the rest of it. It’s more Play Doh for politicians. Hardly an improvement over the convoluted mess we have now.

[goldstategop]

Today, politicians can jack up your income tax through withholding and you aren't the wiser. I look at the example lewislynn posted and I thought my... government sure is expensive! Is it really worth 23%? I think we should answer the question of whether any thing government does is worth it taking that chunk of our income. If not, then let's shrink government down to a size we're comfortable paying for. Which is kinda the whole point with the Fair Tax.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[netvictory]

my08space.com supports the Fairtax

[Son House]

THE REBATE

every consumer will receive a check
from the federal government every single month
equal to the sales tax that person would be expected to pay
on the purchase of the basic necessities of life for that month.

married couple with two children $24,240.
The government will rebate this amount in 12 monthly installments of $465.

single woman with one child?
Her monthly rebate in 2003 would have been $232.

single person with no dependents.
That person would receive $172 per month.

It is paid to everyone, rich and poor alike.
The purpose here is to make sure that no American has to
pay the Fair Tax sales tax on the basic necessities of life.

Just don’t tax ‘basic necessities of life’.

“receive a check from the federal government every month”

Is trouble.

[Son House]

“poverty is largely a behavioral disorder”

“Under the Fair Tax the poor won’t only survive, they’ll positively thrive!”

Yes, example; my brother’s property would become a junkyard from auction stuff,
he’s an ‘auction addict’, and lives in poverty because he owes,
but he’s willing to collect/vote every kind of welfare and
charity to pay for his family needs,
while he continues to spend.

Point being, pay your share of Government you vote for, and not shift the burden so one can collect more.

[A_Tradition_Continues]

Thanks LL. That was informative. If the tax is based on "gross" you really get screwed. Those states with high sales taxes get nailed even more. That doesn't seem "fair".

I have to think about the elderly also. Those insurance premiums suddenly get larger and that $500.00 a month for medications gets a real big boost in cost.

I recently took over two of the family's multimillion dollar businesses due to the death of my Dad. At the age of 18 I'm trying to learn and absorb as much as I can on the tax side of operations. A lot of this is overwhelming but the "FairTax" doesn't sound like a viable alternative to our present system.

[Man50D]

It Appears "Fair Tax" is based upon the assumption retail prices would decline due to pass along taxes we currently pay being eliminated.

The Fair Tax is not base on any assumption, particularly the one you assert with respect to "pass along" taxes not being eliminated. In fact The Fair Tax will abolish business to business taxes Fair Tax FAQ #1 thereby eliminating hidden value added taxes that tax each stage of production and raise the price of the end product or service.

Additionally, how do you handle state, county and city taxes? What about Special District taxes?

The Fair Tax is written to only replace Federal income taxes with a national sales tax and not taxes at lower levels of government. Although the Fair Tax can have an indirect effect on taxes at the state level. States can choose to replace their income tax with The Fair Tax Fair Tax FAQ #25. States would benefit due to lower administration costs. Additionally sttes would receive payment for collecting the Fair Tax. If a state chooses to conform to the federal tax base, they will raise the same amount of state sales tax with a lower tax rate since the FairTax base is broader than their current tax base.

Are you willing to have 23% added to your healthcare premiums?

You forget the rebate Fair Tax FAQ #3. Healthcare is considered a necessity. The rebate will cover the tax on necessities up to the poverty level. Consequently the effective tax rate will be lower than 23%. . Fair Tax FAQ#49 The average effective tax rate will be 15.5% It will be dramatically lower for those with the lowest income. Another factor you also have not considered is today's healthcare premiums have hidden/value added taxes built in to their costs. They are passed onto the consumer in the form of higher prices. The Fair Tax will eliminate those hidden taxes.

Are you willing to have that $20K car cost you an additional $4600.00 up front?

Once again you ignore two key points. If the car is used it will not be taxed! Fair Tax FAQ #1. Used items are not taxed. . Also the rebate will lower the effective tax rate on the vehicle.

How many tens of thousands of federal employees will it take to operate the monthly rebate scheme?

The infrastructure to payout the rebate is already in place. existing Social Security Administration will send out the rebate checks.

Your comments don't make sense. It is painfully clear you have not read The Fair Tax Act Of 2007 or The Americans For Fair Taxation website. I suggest you read both before making anymore nonsensical remarks.