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To: Optimist
No, it’s those who point to support of Israel first and foremost without regard to all of the other international uses of our $.

Well no offense but look at one of the largest receivers. What? He should claim foreign aid is unconstitutional because Zimbabwe receives 2 mil (or whatever they get)? That would make it fair to you?

In a world of WMD’s (whether nuclear, chemical, or multiple warhead ballistic missiles) we can’t wait for a first attack or formal declaration of war to maintain our security.

Hell yes! Let's attack Russia and China tomorrow. After all they have the largest stocks after us and theoretically they could attack us one day....I'd suggest you go back and read what the Framers had to say on the issue. Pre-emptively attacking other nations doesn't even come close to falling under the concept of Just War Theory.

You remember Just War? Christian idea? Our nation supposedly? Aw hell let's just toss that one out with the bathwater too....

As foreign aid goes, Israel is money generally well spent since they reflect our interests in the Mideast (that we cannot allow to be dominated by a totalitarian, fascist or communist entity)

Why can't we? What is it our business how another nation runs its internal affairs? Oh that's right, it's not. And if you claim there is you have just pissed on every conservative ideal in the past 200 years. Conservatism is not defined by War. But warfare is the health of the State.

Damn Republicans have fallen far..

117 posted on 06/27/2007 12:21:18 PM PDT by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: billbears

>>> no offense but look at one of the largest receivers.

it’s not who, or how much ...it’s why (or why they should not in some cases) BTW (speaking of one of the largest receivers) Egypt receives 2/3 of what Israel receives...I’m sure they have our back.

>>> Let’s attack Russia and China tomorrow....theoretically they could attack us one day

it’s not about the potential it’s about the likelihood ... maybe you don’t think we should spend any money on foreign intelligence, pull all our ships and planes within US boundaries, and have a picnic in the back yard until we find out that the Saudis weren’t able to stop Ahmanutjob from overtaking the oil fields of Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
You weigh the threat and its dangers to yourself and your ALLIES.

>>> the concept of Just War Theory.

“When enemies differ greatly because of different religious beliefs, race, or language, war conventions have rarely been applied. It is only when the enemy is seen to be a people with whom one will do business in the following peace that tacit or explicit rules are formed”

>>> optimist: the Mideast (that we cannot allow to be dominated by a totalitarian, fascist or communist entity)
>>> billbears: Why can’t we? What is it our business how another nation runs its internal affairs?

The Mideast has a history of struggle for domination of its land (Greeks, Persians, Babylonians, British, Nazis, Soviets...). Why? It is a crossroads, it is the birthplace of western religion, and it sits on oil. But you’re right we have no interest in what happens there (like the Panama Canal or Suez Canal or Cuba or ...). International alliances are built generally among men who aren’t always in power, and not always with countries that are stable. But then if a suicide bomber gets hold of oil fields (or god forbid a nuclear weapon) with which to blackmail us we have nothing to worry about because thats their internal problem and they won’t inject themselves into our internal operations since that is against the Just War Theory. /sarc


134 posted on 06/27/2007 1:32:25 PM PDT by Optimist (I think I'm beginning to see a pattern here.)
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To: billbears
In a world of WMD’s (whether nuclear, chemical, or multiple warhead ballistic missiles) we can’t wait for a first attack or formal declaration of war to maintain our security.

Hell yes! Let’s attack Russia and China tomorrow. After all they have the largest stocks after us and theoretically they could attack us one day....I’d suggest you go back and read what the Framers had to say on the issue. Pre-emptively attacking other nations doesn’t even come close to falling under the concept of Just War Theory.

Time to get up to speed a bit friend. I am one to doubt that the Framers could every foresee the weapons we have now and the fact they they could easily fall into the hands of suicidal maniacs on a mission.

Remember that mutual assured destruction has worked for neigh on 50 years between us and other nations whose intrerest in self preservation superseds the desire for conquest. If that was not the case the USSR would have hit us in the late 70s when we were not at our best militarily.

Just war theory is all well and good when all things are equal and the is a desire on both sides to fight and the combatants on each side have equal desires to live. That is not the case now.

135 posted on 06/27/2007 1:37:55 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (Don't worry hippie, we'll defend you too. Now fetch my Cafe Mocha will you....)
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