[radioman]

Libetarians don't seem to know history very well and those societies that allowed the "freedom" with no consequences to do these things and how it torn them apart and how they failed miserably

Name one.
.

[sirchtruth]

Well lets see, do you think the Netherlands are a successful, strong society today or are they crumbling?

I'm trying to think of THE NOW instead historical references, but the ROMAN EMPIRE would definately be one. Japan would be another. Germany. Basically any socialist country you can think of that allowed certain "freedoms."

Remember, we're talking within a moral/law context of society. Pretty soon it will be America if we don't go back to acknowledge who ultimately gives us our freedom instead of relying on some secularists idea of what a "moral code" should be...

The idea of America can not and will not survive without acknowledging God and his morale code.