Replies

I said: “Conclusion, Joseph knew they were not real, but if you want to insist that he translated them, knock yourself out.”

You Said: If it were one or two cases where Joseph Smith “might” have been misinterpreted, I’d give you the benefit of the doubt.

Great, then do so.

You Said: But by now, we have a vast library of questionable activities by Smith.

Like the one you just listed which is provably false? The link I referenced showed how Joseph never had possession of the plates to authenticate them and or translate them, but you are quoting someone who is saying he did.

So much for your honesty (see how easy that is, I don't really think you are dishonest. but if that is your standard...)

You Said: The hieroglyphic translation that ended up being the Book of Abraham is completely debunked, BASED ON SMITH’S OWN REPRODUCTION.

LOL! We have gone around on this ride before, it is interesting that the book of Abraham contains some of the same stories and even same names for characters in stories as the book of Enoch. Hugh Nibley gives the analysis on it being Jewish in origin.

Cherry picking all the points form one side of an argument is not considered "good scholarship" by most, but do what ever you want.

You Said: The Kirtland $3 Bank scam shreds Smith’s honesty.

Again with an unsourced, unsupported claim. The bank was a common thing to start in that day when trying to start a community, Most Banks then were unchartered and failure was common. The charter for the Kirkland bank, which had been applied for, (shows Joseph was "Doing it Right") never was issued because antis forced a failure before it could be issued.

You Said: The polygynous/polyandrous adultery thing, especially with a 14 year old pimped by papa Heber Kimbal is thoroughly disgusting.

Mary, you know, Jesus' mother was 15 when he was born. I have seen estimates as low as 13, but 15 is what the Catholics say. Two of the 14 year olds were WIDOWS when Joseph married them, The other two's husbands were missing and presumed dead. There has been genetic testing, none of these women bore Joseph any children, he did not sleep with them. Women could not own property, had only one option for employment, and it's not honorable. What a heel getting women off the street and caring for them, what a heel. BTW, the average life expectancy was 35 for a white male in the 1830's and the average age of marrying was 15 so yeah, 14 was below average, but not by much, it was a different society then, admit it, or admit you are manipulating facts to make your point.

You Said: The Nauvoo Expositor’s description of Joseph and Hiram’s running a tin-pot dictatorship is true to form.

ROTFLOL! The Nauvoo expositor was specifically set up to print lies and stir up controversy with the Mormons! To quote them as some sort of authority means you either didn't research them, or well, I'll leave that up to the readers.

You Said: The Salt Sermon (which must have been approved by Smith), gives ample background on who was really into extermination orders.

The Salt sermon: there is no evidence that Joseph smith knew it was going to be given as it was given "off the cuff" as they say. was the beginning of the movement known as the Danites (basically a group of guys who decided to take punishing the wicked who apostatised from the church upon them selves) When Joseph Found out He was less than pleased Joseph Smith had nothing to do with [the Danites] and exposed the participants when he became aware of it, is equally well confirmed -- From the refutation of "The God Makers" on fair LDS (The God Makers is an anti film which is a film made by a Former Bishop who became disaffected with the church when he was not made a stake president after being released as a Bishop.)

So far, none of your accusations is panning out...

You Said: The transparent KJ style of the Book of Mormon and multiple redactions shows it to be a work of fiction. Etc. Etc. Etc.

The "Style" is because in that day and age the Bible was the principle teaching tool for english (IMHO we'd be better of now if we were still teaching the Bible in school). The multiple "redactions" you are talking about consist of adding punctuation, and reformatting into paragraphs, everything else is to bring things back into alignment with the original manuscript with the exception of changing the word "white" to "pure" because of changing usage in the english language.

Tell me, are you willing to apply the same standard to the Bible? (I thought not...)

You Said: In short, you live in a sand castle.

I find your post to violate most of the rules of posting mane calling, slander, no supporting documentation while stating opinions as fact, IMHO there is little substance to your post.

Have a good day now.

“I find your post to violate most of the rules of posting mane calling, slander,”

I called you no names. But we are quite used to you “claiming” name calling and slander in order to try and win by innuendo. You can nowhere find in my previous post a single sentence where I call you a buffoon, a liar, a jackanape, or any of the other terms I might use if I were in the business of gratuitous slander, so you stand corrected in your shell game.

“no supporting documentation while stating opinions as fact,”

Come now, you base everything you say on a book so self-inconsistent that it gives strict documentation a black eye and a kick in the rear. Besides, you’ve made it clear that no evidence presented by the antis will ever be accepted by you (you cannot do so, else the whole Mormon house of cards would fall down).

“IMHO there is little substance to your post.”

It wasn’t meant to be a substantive document rehashing the last three months of evidence given by myself and others that Joseph Smith was a philandering, glass gazing, tinpot general, false prophet and general scalliwag. I assumed that anyone who had read through what would be a hundred pounds of documentation would have the mental capacity to realize Joseph Smith was just a carni scamster. But since you aren’t capable of that, then I must assume you are a lost cause and that if Brigham Young said there were aliens on the dark side of the moon, you’d believe him.

Since it is clear that in your mind there is literally NO act by Joseph Smith or the Prophets that followed him that was in error (they being Gods-to-be after all), there is literally zero reason to present new data to you (though that is not the case with others). Go read the last few thousand post threads if you want even More evidence.
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Regarding the Nauvoo Expositor:

FC:The Nauvoo Expositor’s description of Joseph and Hiram’s running a tin-pot dictatorship is true to form.

DU: ROTFLOL! The Nauvoo expositor was specifically set up to print lies and stir up controversy with the Mormons! To quote them as some sort of authority means you either didn’t research them, or well, I’ll leave that up to the readers

Oh please, I guess in that case you believe FreeRepublic should be destroyed as well, because it has graciously given voice to those of us who according to you “print lies and stir up controversy with the Mormons!” Joseph Smith and brother Hiram simply had the Nauvoo Expositor press destroyed when it began to reveal they were harboring fugitives, stealing wives, involved in land speculation and voter intimidation. I assume since Joseph Smith was such a saint, you’d follow in his footsteps and have FreeRepublic shut down as well.

But go ahead and keep discussing the backwater nasty blackholes of Mormon history, we can certainly continue in that swampland for eternity.
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FC: The polygynous/polyandrous adultery thing, especially with a 14 year old pimped by papa Heber Kimbal is thoroughly disgusting.

DU:Mary, you know, Jesus’ mother was 15 when he was born. I have seen estimates as low as 13, but 15 is what the Catholics say. Two of the 14 year olds were were WIDOWS when Joseph married them, The other two’s husbands were missing and presumed dead.

Wow, that sure makes it all right then. Of course, the Kimball girl was convinced BY HER FATHER to be Smith’s wife, and since Heber was a church leader himself, I doubt she was starving. And I guess all the other founding Father’s were just taking in waifs out of the goodness of their hearts. Why don’t you go do a search for Joseph Smith’s love letters to see how he was sneaking out on Emma to do the fandango out of the goodness of his heart.

“Have a good day now.”

Well, at least I’ll be honest, since you are in fact wishing me a bad day, I will do the same to you.

The real problem for you is that you’ve begun to realize that these huge threads have exposed thousands of readers to the shadowy underworld of Mormon history and pseudo-prophecy. If your occult worldview of seer stones, brass orbs, magic underwear, secret handshakes, etc. is correct, then the rest of us really are assinine apostates doomed to hell. Obviously it just causes you a world of frustration not to be able to shout “damn you all to hell you heathen”.

But I suspect that day will come, you will reveal your true colors.

Hey, how’s that Romney guy doing in the polls, a God like him should have already skyrockedted to the top.