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To: DanielLongo; Reaganesque; Rameumptom; Grig; sevenbak; Utah Girl; Enosh

Enosh does appear to represent a significant portion of Orthodox Christianity in his position.

I’ve actually read commentary - which was agreed to by several participants on this thread - that essentially stated that law is for those who have not been saved through their faith.

In other words, many Orthodox Christians appear to believe that all a person has to do to enter Heaven is to have faith in Christ’s atonement. No other action is required - evidently not even obedience to the commandments that have been given by Christ.

Where the logic breaks down is this: I have faith in Christ’s atonement. By their definition, I am saved, no matter what I do, as long as I have that faith. Yet, I am a Mormon; therefore, I am not saved, because I follow heresies.

So, which is it? Am I saved by faith, just like them, despite my “good works?” Or am I damned by my heresies? The two assertions are mutually exclusive, and I invite any Orthodox Christian to explain the apparent contradiction. I have done so in the past, and am yet to receive an answer.


1,517 posted on 06/30/2007 1:28:06 PM PDT by tantiboh
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To: tantiboh; Reaganesque; Rameumptom; Grig; sevenbak; Utah Girl; Enosh
Again, forgive repeating myself, but I truly think that the "breakdown" occurs when they confuse faith with belief.

Truly that is why James said:

James 2

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

The devils are not "saved" because they believe no more than any man or woman is. Faith is a motivating principle that begets works. It cannot exhist by itself. While "belief" is passive as is "profession". They of themselves are dead. James' point is that you cannot have faith without works. Nor can works come but by faith, because it is the motivating principle to action. Joseph Smith's Lectures on Faith is a great read. If you have never read it, be sure to get a copy. It is a quick read, but absolutely full of doctrine and clarity. I am not trying to talk down to anyone. I just have a great passion for this particular doctrine, because it is so far reaching.

1,534 posted on 06/30/2007 1:45:52 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: tantiboh; DanielLongo; Reaganesque; Rameumptom; Grig; sevenbak; Utah Girl
"No other action is required"

Correct, believe in Christ, you're in.

But a big schism arises over the question of if it is possible to lose salvation once gained.

The Baptist Church says "no", I say "yes."

Baptolic. Yup.

1,538 posted on 06/30/2007 1:53:18 PM PDT by Enosh (†)
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To: tantiboh

No tantiboh, the Christ you have faith in is not one with the Father. John 10:30 He is not eternal, John 1:1. He is not sufficient to save you from all sin (see the Mormon theology of “blood atonement”), see also the wearing of undergarments and tithing required to enter the temple which is required to enter the celestial kingdom. But see John 3:16.

Our Christ is eternal, one with the Father for all of time. The father is creator and God of all the heavens. See Job 38:30, not just God of one planet, and not one god among millions or billions or even just 3.

That is the danger for you. You worship what you do not know and turn for understanding to a false prophet. That’s why we talk to you and hope you see . . . We aren’t the judge. Christ is.


1,574 posted on 06/30/2007 3:20:52 PM PDT by Greg F (<><)
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