Posted on 06/23/2007 1:28:02 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
False? or True; showing JS in a bad light?
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself adelivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I bsaw two cPersonages, whose brightness and dglory defy all description, estanding above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My fBeloved gSon. Hear Him!18 My object in going to ainquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
What would your reaction be if He were to announce to the world that Joseph Smith was His prophet and that the Book of Mormon contained the everlasting gospel?
Oh, probably like the Presbyterians did when they heard this:
About like you LDS members would be if HE said:
Mohammed was His prophet and that the Koran contained the way to Heaven!
We'd wonder where the ANTI was!
Enosh, Saspotas do you seriously believe in the story of Noah's Ark? It had one window, one cubit square on top. Do you seriously think that was enough ventilation for 40,000 animals? Where did they put all the food and water required for almost two years? What did they do with all the defecation on this sealed ship?
So yes I would like to see the engineering study that shows that it is possible, especially the food and waste, storage and removal problems.
In fact I will make the problem easy for you. If you can demonstrate how Noah could have saved a small herd of a thousand cows for a year on his boat, I will concede that Noah's ark may actually have been real :)
Lets take 1000 cows and feed them 30 lbs of hay per day and 10 gallons of water. This should be a trivial problem compared to 40,000 animals all with different dietary requirements.
To help you with the math, 400 cubic feet of hay is apx. 1 ton or 2000 lbs, and a cubic foot of water is 7.48 gallons. Also you have to do something with the waste in this sealed container with only one opening and a desalination plant is cheating.
Good luck! And remember, Noah had a problem that was 40 times worse than the scenario I challenged you with.
What perplexes me is how do supposedly rational people base their lives on fairy tales with no more basis for believing in them than I do for believing in a Scifi novel?
It must really be true that there are none so blind as those that will not see.
“just the book about if written by an adulterous apostate that was written to discredit the church and to make money”
I hear many say that so and so was a hater or apostate or
whatever and just does these books to make money.
Have you ever learned about the economics of the publishing
industry? It is very, very hard to make any money off
publishing a book. If you had a desire to make money,
you’d invent magical underwear to sell...
This is the Scripture which gives me the biggest problem, but then nothing is impossible for God.
And yes, I believe literally in Noah's Ark and the Flood.
“RIght! See my post to Color a few back. A few thousand witnesses at the time of Christ is equally valid. My point was that revelation from God to many many more people than FR will ever see is worth noting.”
I do see your point.
Mine was that if numbers of people seeing revelation is
the basis of truth, then Jehovah’s Witnesses seem to
be leading the mormon team.
Seven,
Here is my first post in response to yours...
“...the mormon Jesus is a created spirit being who became
a god.
Unlike the Jesus in the Bible, who was always God and
never a created spirit being.
Wrong foundation, inadequate sacrifice.”
You responded with more mormonism scriptures, as if
that proves anything about the Bible.
I told you that when it comes to truth about Christ, you
might as well use a cookbook as the BOM.
You responded and complained that you had to use the BOM
to show me what you believe.
The problem between us isn’t what you believe.
It is that what you believe about Christ isn’t Biblical.
If you want to demonstrate that it is Biblical,
that would require the Bible and not the BOM.
OK, now take the passage you posted. Despite believing
that Jesus Christ was a “created spirit being”, you are
trying to argue that he was in the beginning with the
father and that all men were too. Either you have a very
innovative definition of “the beginning”, or it doesn’t
mean what you are trying to prove.
If Christ was with the father in the beginning, how could
he be a created spirit being????
best,
ampu
!
yep, some ocean journey all right, have you given much thought to the windows in those air-tight vessels?
Campbell: “...and in them were put sixteen windows of molten stone, which when touched by the finger of Jesus, became as transparent as glass, and gave them light under ‘the mountain waves,’ and when above the water.
Two of these stones were sealed up with the plates and became the spectacles of Joseph Smith.”
Think of it, 8 boats, 16 windows, 8x16=128. 128 windows, two became the spectacles (or is it peep stones?) for Joe Smith to decipher the golden plates. Where did the rest of the 126 windows go? Think of it, what a great archaeological find and confirmation of the book of Mormon if any of them might be found.
Where are they? For that matter, what happened to the two Joe used? ...not to mention the alleged golden plates.
We wouldn’t have over 2000 - some very bitter - posts on this thread if the Mormons, or the archaeologists, had come up with at least one of these items. One out of 128 divination stones is not too much to ask.
The Mormons, in lieu of evidence, substitute the “burning in the bosum” spiritual experience instead. I’d be VERY leery of such a thing. We are inviting a spirit to confirm Joe Smith the dabbler in the occult. Joe Smith, the peep stone divination man. The Masonic/Kabbalist adept. Divination is classed as witchcraft according to the Bible.
10.The nation's capital will be moved from Washinton D.C to Jackson County Missouri.
9.The new White House will have spires and an angel Moroni on top.
8.The Oval Office will be decorated with mirrors and crystal chandeliers, and we will be referred to as the Celestial Room.
7.Introduction will be President and Sister Romney.
6.No more "Hail to the Chief".......It will now be "We Thank Thee O God for a Prophet".
5.The Cabinet will be renamed.....The General Authorities.
4.All Cabinet members must be endowed and sealed to Mitt.
3.The State room will be replaced with a Cultural Hall.
2.The Washington Monument will be moved to Missouri and named, Joseph's Shaft.
1. Mitt will ride a white horse to his inauguration while singing, "Onward Christian Warrior".
I don’t think so ...
And not allow the underwear to be made or sold by any other agency except yourself and your agents. ;)
ROTFL...where DO you find these, ampu? “6.No more “Hail to the Chief”.......It will now be “We Thank Thee O God for a Prophet”. My favorite!
And yes, I believe literally in Noah's Ark and the Flood.
So you believe that the Earth literally came to a screeching halt resulting in untold devastation as its rotational speed of 1,700 kph came to a screeching halt and the moon came to a screeching halt at the same time? And then a day later Joshua started the earth spinning again and let the moon go on its way. The amount of devastation would have been cataclysmic and yet none of the ancient records have any indication of something like that happening. In fact the only record is what some guy wrote down in a book.
As I showed with my example with the thousand cows it is impossible to put enough food and water on the Ark to feed them for a year (and I think they went 200 days beyond that) and yet you believe that Noah could have done it with 40,000 animals?
Aesops fables are much more believable than some parts of the Bible. What is it about the Bible that turns seemingly rational people into babbling idiots?
I think the answer to that question would also help explain why Muslims like to blow themselves up.
You obviously don’t have the engineering reports that you claimed to have read, to back up your assertions about Noah’s Ark. That’s understandable because they certainly don’t exist (delusional crackpot reports excluded of course).
The Noah’s Ark story is an order of magnitude more difficult to believe than Jareds journey to America. Do you people actually read what you write?
Mohammed was His prophet and that the Koran contained the way to Heaven!
Why would Jesus Christ ever hold the Koran up and proclaim it the way? It says nothing about Him or His gospel. On the other hand, the central theme of the Book of Mormon is Christ. It is a powerful witness of Him and that man can find salvation only through Him.
What do you think of Malachi 3:1 ?
1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Who do you think that messenger will be? Who do you think will prepare the way for the Lords second coming? Do you think that it will be announced by the main stream media? As Christians, what should we be looking for?
“Do you people...,” you said.
You people? Right, people like the Old Testament prophets, and New Testament writers. People like Jesus Christ. They all made direct reference to, or alluded to, the story of Noah and the ark.
Biblical Christians, they are my people. Who are yours, may I ask? The Mormons? Freemasons? Atheists?
As to the Biblical story of Noah and the flood vs the book of Mormon’s Jaredites, apples and oranges. The former was a barge-like construction for the survival of the flood only, the purpose was not to go from point A to point B.
No threatening flood when the Jaredites allegedly left, they were to go from point A to point B. So why not actual vessels with sails? Why the barge-like construction?
The answer is, though Mormons will never admit it, Solomon Spaulding wrote this as a fiction novel, a sort of spin off on the story of Noah and his barge-like ark. Whether or not it was feasible was of no concern to Spaulding, he was writing fiction, for heaven’s sake. Fiction the Mormons take as fact.
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