Romney: Attacks On Mormon Religion Troubling

CBS 4 MIAMI ^ | 23 JUNE 2007 | AP

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Aye Lassie! An American is an American. I also
have more immediate ancestors who immigrated
(legally :-) ) . Americans all.

[restornu]

It is amusing how you turn your act around and accuse the LDS!:)

Have a nice day!:)

[Osage Orange]

Says...I am Indian.

I am Potawatomi.

Thanks!!

[Osage Orange]

It is amusing how you turn your act around and accuse the LDS!:)

Okay...I'll bite.

What did I accuse the LDS of?

[restornu]

But, you know what? They are all STILL counted on the membership rolls of the LDS church because they have not bothered with resignation letters, even though they have not set foot in an LDS church since they were children and most belong to other churches.

You know what so are they still counted on the Lord's roll in heaven!

Have a nice day!:)

[restornu]

No it is FastCoyote words not mind!

[sandude]

You are right about our being related. My 3rd great grandmother Nancy Kingsbury descended from John Alden and Priscilla Mullins. The link may not be accurate though and we are looking into it to verify one way or another.

Another of my 3rd great grandmothers, Mary Riggs, descended from John Howland and Elizabeth Tilley.

Millions of Americans are related to those who settled Massachusetts between 1620 and 1650.

[papagall]

Is the geneology obsession with Mormons a means to get baptizing done for dead relatives? I’ve heard that the Salt Lake City geneology archives of the Mormon Church are the most extensive in the world and anyone can access them. Is that true?

[sandude]

Is the geneology obsession with Mormons a means to get baptizing done for dead relatives?

Baptisms for our deceased ancestors is what motivates many Mormons to research their roots. Many others, including non-mormons, do this kind of research for fun and to find out just how their families came to America.

I’ve heard that the Salt Lake City geneology archives of the Mormon Church are the most extensive in the world and anyone can access them. Is that true?

It is my understanding that the Mormon archives are the largest and they are available to anyone. You can go to www.familysearch.org for more information about this free service.

[sasportas]

The rest of your post reeks of the same disinformation.

If this isn’t a case of “look who’s talking” I’ve never seen one. Smithism and disinformation: one and the same.

[sasportas]

Alexander Campbell’s commentary on the the Mormon book of Ether:

“Moroni writes the book of Ether, containing an account of the people of Jared, who escaped from the building of the tower of Babel unconfounded in their language. These people of Jared, God instructed to build barges to cross seas; and finally they built eight barges, air tight, and were commanded to make a hole in the top to admit air, and one in the bottom to admit water, and in them were put sixteen windows of molten stone, which when touched by the finger of Jesus, became as transparent as glass, and gave them light under ‘the mountain waves,’ and when above the water.

Two of these stones were sealed up with the plates and became the spectacles of Joseph Smith.

And the 8 barges, air-tight, made like ducks, after swimming and diving 334 days, arrived on the coasts of the land of promise.”

Obviously, the Biblical story of Noah is the basis for this. Now, I’m not a nautical engineer, but I rather doubt these air-tight barges, save for one hole in the ceiling and one in the floor (thats right, in the floor!), would not have made the crossing - crossing the entire ocean from the middle east to central America.

According to engineering studies I have read, Noah’s ark was feasible, this, I rather doubt. It has as much credibility as the later alleged crossing by Israelites to the Americas, with American cities, etc. peopled by their descendants. Totally without archaeological support. This cockamamie Jaredite crossing, same thing.

[MHGinTN]

Oh my! Spaulding's novel was a sci fi! How charming of him and how embarrassing for Smithism.

[sevenbak]

"The word of God is not, nor has it ever been meant to be tested with evidence.

Oh??"

Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.

Malachi 3:10

 

I find it both ironic and very refreshing that you would use the tithing reference in Malachi to defend your point. The Malachi verses speak to obedience and the blessing obtained therefrom. This of course is not evidence from the standpoint of the world, it is evidence straight from God through obedience to his commandments, (in this case tithing). Part of LDS doctrine is that belssings from God are in direct proportion to obiedience to the laws associated with those blessings. Of course God reveals such things to us, but it is all based on faith in his word, when we put his word to the test through obedience and faith... NOT archeology, ancient manuscripts, etc, etc, etc.

 

Since you brought up Malachi, (a great reference btw, thank you!), I will bring up another, of the same caliber of truth had by obedience to God. I will use BOLD and underline to point out the commandments (BOLD) vs. the blessings from God for obeying such (underline)

Moroni 10:

2 And I seal up these records, after I have spoken a few words by way of exhortation unto you.
3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your chearts.
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.
6 And whatsoever thing is good is just and true; wherefore, nothing that is good denieth the Christ, but acknowledgeth that he is.
7 And ye may know that he is, by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore I would exhort you that ye deny not the power of God; for he worketh by power, according to the faith of the children of men, the same today and tomorrow, and forever.
8 And again, I exhort you, my brethren, that ye deny not the agifts of God, for they are many; and they come from the same God.

 

This is an eternal truth, here's a similar one from James:

James 1:

5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering.

 

Similary, the Malachi reference you mentioned holds the same standard:

Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.

Nearly all blessings from God have a prerequisite attached. This is living by faith, and GOD giving abundantly AFTER the the trial by faith.

 

Cheers

[sevenbak]

Color, let’t say for the sake of argument that half of all Mormons are in name only and do not believe it. Let’s face it, it’s a hard religion to adhere to, the commandments, tithing, offerings for the poor, no sex outside of marriage, no drinking, smoking, etc. etc.

Let’s say there are only 6.5 believing members, same point. There is still the same standard applied, they asked in faith and received an independent witness from God.

Now, as to your assertion that 50 percent of Mormons are faking it or don’t really believe. You may be on to something...

Consider the parable of the ten virgins. There were half of them that were not ready or willing to do what it took to enter the wedding feast with the bridegroom, even though they went through the motions and did essentially what the other 5 virgins did, they just didn’t have the oil in their lamps.

I hope I can be obedient and keep my wick trimmed, and my lamp filled with oil, for I don’t when He will come, and so I will try to be always ready.

Best to you!

[sevenbak]

Listen, I accept that the mormonism writings are the basis of your belief. Don’t think otherwise. As soon as you try to mislead people into believing it is Christian, I do care.

AMPU,

This is NOT about me spouting the Book of Mormon or the Doctrine and Covenants in a sly way to decieve folks. It is unseeing your claims that Mormons believe God was created and did not exist prior to His creation with the Father. I showed you plainly that your accusations were false, and you then refuse to accept that explanation because it came from the Doctrine and Covenants. How can you keep a straight face when you type such a response? How can you accuse us of a doctrine that is false, and then refuse to accept the truth of what we REALLY believe from our own scriptures. I know it is easier to base your preconceived notions about me and those of my faith on goggle and such, but really, I thought better of you than that.

[sevenbak]

You seem to imply that there is something wrong or immoral about defending either yourself or others from unlawful attacks. When the mob of 150-200 persons attacked the room in which he and the 3 others were staying, Joseph managed to fire just three shots at the mob before he was killed. The entire event only lasted a few minutes. It wasn't a blazing gun battle it was one man, armed only with a small revolver and defending himself against 200 armed foes seeking to kill those inside. The fact that Joseph defended his friends only after Hyrum was shot dead speaks volumes. The situation was a slaughter within and without.

Going to ones death happily is not something I imagine ANY prophet doing. You seem to believe that the early Christians martyrs all died willingly without any resistance. Somehow I suspect that they did not step willingly into the mouths of lions. When they were alone with the lions in the arena, I imagine that they tried to run, hide, or even fight back. Their resistance did not disqualify them from being martyrs. Also, when Paul faced a similar mob who had decided "it is not fit that he should live." (Acts 22:22), he used his Roman citizenship for protection instead of meekly submitting to scourging and death, he didn't have a revolver did he? And he wasn't protecting others, just himself. I find Pauls martyrdom (witness for Christ) equally valid. He sealed his testimony with his blood.

Cheers

[sevenbak]

So numbers mean nothing as a basis of truth.

RIght! See my post to Color a few back. A few thousand witnesses at the time of Christ is equally valid. My point was that revelation from God to many many more people than FR will ever see is worth noting.

[sevenbak]

You didn't answer any of my questions......... That seems the rule of thumb here.....

I'm assuming this was your question? "In regards to the Holy Ghost....are you actually saying the BOM...isn't a true source? Are you also saying the Bible isn't either? I'm confused...."

You try to twist and spin in the wind so I moved on. I've already addressed this in a few posts back. Receiving revelation from God necessitates doing what we can within our power to obey and do what He asks. That includes study, prayer, fasting in some instances, etc.

[sevenbak]

They are soooooo much better than the rest of us. Just ask them. ;-)

Color, this is getting really old. You are the one that makes a big deal about our "works" ...not us.

If some want to do works before men, they will have their reward, but if we do it in secret, our Father who seeth in secret, will reward us openly. Cheers

[sevenbak]

Good point. I guess I should relish “apologist”
But when it’s used so much and in a negative way, it gets old.