Posted on 06/23/2007 1:28:02 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
What you have to understand, CUH, is that there is a double-standard at work here.
Orthodox Christians are free to believe items of doctrine that seem to be contradicted by some scriptures. The doctrine of the Trinity is one such example. For them, it’s just how things are; it’s a matter of faith; and faith doesn’t have to be argued logically.
But let a Latter-Day Saint believe something that seems inconsistent with some scriptures, such as the idea that grace requires faith as well as works, and he is a heretical, blaspheming, cultist, non-Christian, brainwashed dupe to be loathed, feared, or, at best, pitied.
It’s just how things are when dealing with anti-Mormons, just as conservatives are automatic sexist, racist, bigoted homophobes in their dealings with liberals. There’s really no use becoming frustrated about it. The weather’s nice outside, the birds are singing, the children are laughing, and you are a member of the Jesus Christ’s own church. Things could certainly be worse.
~”However, Mormons still are Christian, no one can tell me otherwise.”~
Thank you. You’d be surprise how many around here will try to tell you otherwise.
I do believe it is we Mormons who are throwing the first punches here. I suggest we all take a step back and remember who it is we claim to represent.
No kidding. Based on their vitriol, can you imagine how these guys would have been during the crusades or the inquisition? Sadly, perhaps even when Christ was here on earth?
~”The truth be known, prior to 1980 you almost never heard that Jesus was God. I think this is a new doctrine that has taken off.”~
Really? How interesting. I hadn’t heard that. Have you found anything around that discusses this shift that you perceive? Any further information?
~”Come on over, we have cookies too.”~
Oh yeah? We have green Jello - with shredded carrots!
Does that mean that WE get to use "arrogant", "supercilious", "patronizing"?
We'd rather not. But, if the shoe fits.....
cause I was around back then, believe it or not. The first I heard that idea was from a whacked out obnoxious fanatic. It was an odd idea, but boy did it spread like wild fire. I don’t even bother anymore though to argue about it because people are so brain-washed, it’s difficult to reason with people when they are like that. I am just hoping that it won’t be held against those who argue too earnestly about it, because I think they will be in for a shock, and it won’t bode well for them if they have been too bull-headed about it.
So you now know everything? Nothing is a mystery to you?
See, I’ve been lead to believe that the doctrine was based on the doctrine of the Trinity, and that, of course, has been around for centuries.
So you’re saying that Orthodox Christians thirty years ago embraced the concept that Christ was a separate being from God?
Won’t Joseph Smith judge you as well as Christ?
~”Won’t Joseph Smith judge you as well as Christ?”~
Christ is the final, ultimate judge. As is taught in the Bible, His prophets and apostles will participate in those judgments, with His authority and in His name. From the Encyclopedia of Mormonism:
“A purpose of the final judgment is to judge every person, to provide a separation of the faithful from the wicked, and to make available the promised blessings of eternal reward to God’s faithful children. Jesus Christ is the judge.”
Here is a very complete answer to your question:
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/response/qa/eternal_judge.htm
Thanks for the question; this is the first that I’ve been asked it, and I learned new things in the process of finding the answer.
So Joseph Smith will judge?
“No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are” “ (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 289).
Brigham Young wrote this.
You can imagine what people that believe in Christ think of this.
~”So Joseph Smith will judge?”~
Sure. The link I gave you makes this quite clear, and explains exactly why. The quote you just gave me is also included in that link. Joseph Smith will be a judge under Christ for that dispensation for which he has been given stewardship, just as the Twelve Apostles will judge the Tribes of Israel, as indicated in the Bible. We know there will be many judges under Christ in that great day.
But they judge in Christ’s name. Christ is the ultimate Judge of mankind, and none is equal to Him.
~”You can imagine what people that believe in Christ think of this.”~
It doesn’t really matter to me what other Christians think. I’m much more interested in what Christ thinks.
every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are
Are you a true Christian? Do you follow Christ the best you can? Christ’s judges will judge in His name, by His authority, and using His standards. Therefore, you have nothing to worry about if I’m right.
We know that the twelve apostles have been chosen as judges; if I’m wrong and Smith was a false prophet, then he won’t be a judge among them, and you’ve likewise nothing to worry about.
“How does my faith encouraging me to be a better person lead me “astray from the grace of God and from salvation?” If I have faith in Christ, who cares if I choose to do good works? How do my good works disqualify me from grace?”
False doctrine about God, about Christ, about the true
gospel of grace that changes all three - if you believe it
and rely on it - will substitute for the truth. Your faith
in mormonism, if it encourages you to be a better person,
is irrelevant, when it comes to salvation.
If you promote those heresies and lead others into them,
you will be judged by a stricter standard, according to
scripture.
best,
ampu
I’m not trying to be argumentative here; I’m really trying to understand.
If I’m reading your comments correctly, all a person needs to be saved is the knowledge of the true doctrine. No action is required on their part but to receive this knowledge and accept it. They are not required to -do- anything else.
Is this an accurate description?
Marker
Reno,
Get real. I don’t know anyone who hates mormons
or would kill them. That is hyperbole.
In fact, my personal business paid for travel
expenses for a friend who is a mormon and
destitute to fly for medical care to a distant
state. We did it because we are friends.
Comments like that do not help the atmosphere
around FR.
best,
ampu
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