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To: Alamo-Girl
Yes, that is what I was thinking you meant. Being a nerd - (BS in Information Engineering, in fact), I was fairly sure you were intending a somewhat larger connotation than that of Shannon.

Too, I agree with the possible confusion between 'conscious' and 'sentient' - the latter only 'self aware' while the former includes 'situation aware.' In fact I intend, when I use the word, more like an 'evolved' consciousness wherein willful action has developed (as a result of situational awareness).

As regards space/time versus energy/mass (which came first?) I think the question a silly creation of our 'chrono-chauvinism,' as are discussions of cosmic 'cause and effect.' There simply is no reality to an arrow of time in the physical (inanimate) cosmos. Space/Time and Energy/Mass are inseparable - flip sides of the same coin, each the sine qua non of the other.

That said, I think the concept of "Original Cause" WITHOUT simultaneously mentioning "Original Effect" (presumably, Creation) is on point. Cause alone does not imply some 'arrow of time.'

Too, lingual discussions of God are at best extremely difficult because language is such a poor and limited set of 'infons' by which to try to communicate the nature of God. Coupled with being so incredibly 'chrono-chauvinistic' it is almost doomed to failure - almost by necessity minimizing God into a lingually comprehensible conception - not far removed from God as a giant male human with a long white beard. Indeed, that is why I really appreciate your addition of 'Conscience." If anything is illuminative of God, it would be 'Conscientious Action."

We must bear in mind in such communications, that God has no need to be comprehended by us; rather we need to comprehend Him. Hence we need to be careful not to minimize Him into our possible conceptions. We may be able to observe some finite number of 'faces' of God, but should not be confused that we are observing the whole God by such observations.

1,493 posted on 07/22/2007 11:37:42 AM PDT by dougd
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To: dougd; betty boop; hosepipe
Thank you so very much for your agreement and for sharing your insights!

It also troubles me when people anthropomorphize God - especially when they demand God must comply with the Law of the Excluded Middle or Law of Identity or Cause/Effect (the arrow of time.) Jeepers...

That is the first item on my litany of "observer problems" for the very reason you give. LOL!

Too, I agree with the possible confusion between 'conscious' and 'sentient' - the latter only 'self aware' while the former includes 'situation aware.' In fact I intend, when I use the word, more like an 'evolved' consciousness wherein willful action has developed (as a result of situational awareness).

One of my favorite mysteries is the existence of a hierarchical "will to live" in biological life - from a single cell to a functional system (such as cardiovascular) to the organism, the biosphere and perhaps even the cosmos. The cell certainly doesn't seem "selfish" to me.

And on top of this seemingly involuntary albeit cooperative struggle to survive is self will and collective will - both properties of consciousness (as we are discussing it here.)

1,496 posted on 07/22/2007 12:53:55 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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