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Selfishness, Defined
The First Creation ^
| May 28, 2007
| William Dvorak
Posted on 06/22/2007 12:43:45 PM PDT by Raymann
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I had to put this up here, I think it offers an interesting perspective to conservatives on the nature of morality. You dont have to agree with it but hopefully you can reflect on some of the questions it raises.
1
posted on
06/22/2007 12:43:52 PM PDT
by
Raymann
To: Raymann
Ayn Rand held a similar philosophy I believe. Some Rand fans feel free to correct me.
2
posted on
06/22/2007 12:49:25 PM PDT
by
BipolarBob
(Yes I backed over the vampire, but I swear I didn't see it in my rear view mirror.)
To: Raymann
Yes. It is, well, selfish.
If you think self interest is the same as Nature Herself, then you end up, as Hobbes put it in Leviathan, with human life as “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.”
Everyone for himself, and the devil take the hindmost. If you want something, take it, and if the other fellow objects, kill him. Contrary to expectations, this kind of attitude does not lead to great happiness.
3
posted on
06/22/2007 12:56:04 PM PDT
by
Cicero
(Marcus Tullius)
To: Raymann
Just like all things in life there must be a balance. Either extreme will cause death. You state one side that will cause a failure of life but you fail to mention the other extreme. Pure selfishness is just as self destructive and pure selflessness. Just imagine if everyone were purely selfish. Even the most powerful who would shoulder the weaker out of the way for their own survival would eventually be taken down by others.
If you are trying to legitimise selfishness and demonize selflessness, you really should think hard about what you are espousing.
To: Raymann
“Egoism and selfishness are virtues, in fact the greatest of all virtues, as they enable life.”
Unless the selfish egotist wants your stuff; then you are dead.
5
posted on
06/22/2007 12:58:18 PM PDT
by
Daffy
To: Daffy
“Unless the selfish egotist wants your stuff; then you are dead.”
You’re speaking of Hillary, right?
6
posted on
06/22/2007 1:07:18 PM PDT
by
marsapan
To: Raymann
The Altruist is one who believes in salvation by works. His good works are not intended to benefit others, but rather, to purchase his own salvation.
7
posted on
06/22/2007 1:07:34 PM PDT
by
Redcloak
(The 2nd Amendment isn't about sporting goods.)
To: Raymann
While i was raised to regard selfishness as a vice, I realized early on in my adult life that i had to be selfish to a degree in order to take care of myself...so i, in turn, could take care of my children.
8
posted on
06/22/2007 1:09:15 PM PDT
by
marsapan
To: Raymann
I am not sure selfishness is the right word to use.
9
posted on
06/22/2007 1:10:26 PM PDT
by
freekitty
To: marsapan
Or, Pelosi, Reid, Boxer, Feinstein, Kennedy, or some other socialist in Congress.
10
posted on
06/22/2007 1:11:36 PM PDT
by
lilylangtree
(Veni, Vidi, Vici)
To: freekitty; devolve; ntnychik; PhilDragoo; dixiechick2000; bitt; Raymann
I am not sure selfishness is the right word to use. I agree with you. I don't equate 'self preservation' with selfishness.
All definitions of "selfish' include the words, "without regard for others".
11
posted on
06/22/2007 1:20:01 PM PDT
by
potlatch
(MIZARU_ooo_‹(•¿•)›_ooo_MIKAZARU_ooo_‹(•¿•)›_ooo_MAZARU_ooo_‹(•¿•)›_ooo_))
To: marsapan
Your children? That's awfully selfish and egotistical of you to think of them as your children. They belong to the Village. < /sarcasm which goes to 11>
12
posted on
06/22/2007 1:28:53 PM PDT
by
KarlInOhio
(A base looking for a party.)
To: BipolarBob
Ayn Rand held a similar philosophy I believe. ![](http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/10940000/10948126.gif)
Here's the book.
13
posted on
06/22/2007 1:32:11 PM PDT
by
KarlInOhio
(A base looking for a party.)
To: KarlInOhio
Well, then the Village can pay for their college education.
Fall tuition due NOW!
14
posted on
06/22/2007 1:34:01 PM PDT
by
marsapan
To: Raymann
To live consistently (without contradiction) requires an explicit and relentless exercising of one's capacity to determine and fulfill one's rational self interest. This is the only means for life at its highest.Unless of course you are a Christian. Then the consistent objective is to allow God to glorify Christ in all that we do.
15
posted on
06/22/2007 1:43:11 PM PDT
by
Raycpa
To: Raymann
To live consistently (without contradiction) requires an explicit and relentless exercising of one's capacity to determine and fulfill one's rational self interest. This is the only means for life at its highest. What is one's rational self interest? Hitler pursued what he believed was his self interest....to achieve a great destiny he believed was in store for him. Charles Manson pursued what he believed was his rational self interest. Hillary Clinton is pursuing what she believes is her rational self interest.
Doesn't this philosophy simply amount to "Do your own thing man", and haven't we heard that before with the failed hippie movement?
16
posted on
06/22/2007 1:49:19 PM PDT
by
HerrBlucher
(Tack it up and shut em down Fred!)
To: Raymann
The Objectivist ethics proudly advocates and upholds rational selfishness which means: the values required for mans survival qua man which means: the values required for human survival not the values produced by the desires, the emotions , the aspirations, the feelings, the shims or the needs of irrational brutes, who have never outgrown the primordial practice of human sacrifices, have never discovered an industrial society and can conceive of no self-interest but that of grabbing the loot of the moment.
The Objectivist ethics holds that human good does not require human sacrifices and cannot be achieved by the sacrifice of anyone to anyone. It holds that the rational interests of men do not clash that there is no conflict of interests among men who do not desire the unearned , who do not make sacrifices nor accept them, who deal with one another as traders, giving value for value.
Ayn Rand, The Objectivist Ethics, The Virtue of Selfishness, 28;pb 31
17
posted on
06/22/2007 1:51:34 PM PDT
by
mjp
(Live & let live. I don't want to live in Mexico, Marxico, or Muslimico. Statism & high taxes suck.)
To: Raymann
One can not love another person without first loving them self
You cannot love another person more than you love yourself
What saves a Christian in this context
is an awareness of where all love comes from
If the Lord loves me, I must love myself
End of Story
If the Lord loves you, I must love you
End of Story
It is very simple from that context
To: Raymann
“..The whole point of free market capitalism is that it acknowledges self-interest and greed at the outset, providing it a with pro-social outlet without anyone having to force the issue from on high. ..”
More: http://tinyurl.com/2b3j69
19
posted on
06/22/2007 1:55:21 PM PDT
by
Matchett-PI
(A better name for the goracle is "MALgore" - as in MALpractice, MALevolent, MALfeasance, MALodorous,)
To: potlatch
All definitions of "selfish' include the words, "without regard for others".
And what's wrong with that? When I left the office today for lunch I passed by at least three homeless people. I could have taken a smaller lunch, honestly I could lose the weight, and given them the money. But I walked on like I'm sure most of you did.
Or look at it this way, when you see the starving children on TV and they tell you that for only $1 a day you could save their lives, are you being selfish by not sending in the money?
What the authors point is is simple: Live your own life, period. Both he and I are Objectivists, the concept of violating another individual rights is virtually incomprehensible to us. But so is living for another person. If you want to give away your wealth, fine. If you want to keep it, thats fine too but its all your choice. Our definition of selfishness is the opposite of altruism which is living of others. If it makes you feel good to give all your money away, then it is selfish to do so. If you give away your money because you feel your morally obligated, then thats altruism and that is evil.
20
posted on
06/22/2007 2:00:38 PM PDT
by
Raymann
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