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NBC's Body Armor Embarrassment (Duncan Hunter)
Weekly Standard ^ | 6/20/07 | Tom Donnelly

Posted on 06/20/2007 12:20:00 PM PDT by pissant

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To: Ajnin
You're kidding, right? You watched "Baldo the Wonder SEAL" breathlessly tell us about DS and you're convinced? I'll stick with the proven reliability of the the Interceptor-type armor and continue to wait until something that's actually superior comes out. Soldiers in the field LOVE their current armor and want more of the same.
21 posted on 06/20/2007 12:36:12 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: advertising guy

No money.
GM didn’t want this drawn out.
They settled for a retraction.


22 posted on 06/20/2007 12:36:45 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: Ajnin
You still trust the History channel to be unbiased I suppose...hehhehheh
23 posted on 06/20/2007 12:39:29 PM PDT by Edgerunner (If leftists don't like it, I do. Keep your powder dry...)
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To: SJSAMPLE
In the videos that I have seen, to include a spot on the History Channel, Dragon Skin looks far better than anything the military currently has. There are probably quite a few individuals invested in military contracts that have an interest in having Dragon Skin fail.

Show me where in this comment I stated that I was convinced.

24 posted on 06/20/2007 12:44:57 PM PDT by Ajnin (Neca Eos Omnes. Deus Suos Agnoset.)
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To: RasterMaster

>I saw the last hearing....Duncan Hunter called him out and skewered him with a smile. They nearly wet themselves when he said let’s take it to the basement and test ourselves.<

LOL! Now that’s my man! No one but Duncan Hunter would suggest such a thing, God bless him.


25 posted on 06/20/2007 12:52:28 PM PDT by Paperdoll ( Vote for Duncan Hunter in the Primaries for America's sake!)
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To: SJSAMPLE
Where have all the DragonSkin fanboys gone?

Here ya go!

;^)

THE BEST: Dragon Skin

Defense Review has confirmed it.  Just as we expected, Pinnacle Armor SOV-2000 (Level III/III+) and SOV-3000 (Level IV) Dragon Skin body armor appears to be significantly superior in every combat-relavant way to U.S. Army PEO Soldier's and U.S. Army Natick Soldier Center (NSC)/Soldier Systems Center's Interceptor Body Armor, which is comprised of the following components: USMC Interceptor Multi-threat Body Armor System Small Arms Protective Insert (SAPI) Level III plate or Enhanced Small Arms Protective Insert (ESAPI) Level IV plate, and the USMC Interceptor Multi-threat Body Armor System Outer Tactical Vest (OTV).

DefRev recently got a chance to see the SAPI and ESAPI specifications (the actual specs) , and all relevant Level III and unclassified Level IV V50 and V0 data on Pinnacle Armor Inc.'s SOV/Dragon Skin body armor from three different facilities: H.P. White Laboratory, Inc. (Level III Tests), United States Test Laboratory a.k.a. USTL (Level III and Level IV tests), and U.S. Army Aberdeen Test Center a.k.a. ATC (Level III and Level IV tests). This is the actual data from the range shoots. We weren't allowed to see the true weight of the system, system configuration (or how the armor is made), as this information is classified), but we were able to view projectile types and velocities, and they far exceeded the respective SAPI and ESAPI specs. The data that we saw on Pinnacle Armor SOV-2000 (Level III/III+) and SOV-3000 (Level IV) Dragon Skin armor surpassed the SAPI and ESAPI specs by an impressively large margin.

Not only that, but we were also able to see comparitive graphical data of SOV-2000 Dragon Skin (Level III/III+) vs. SAPI plate and SOV-3000 Dragon Skin (Level IV) vs. ESAPI plate, and Dragon Skin's performance was vastly superior against each type of impacting round, including being able to stop many more repeat hits from all rounds used.
 
In Level III, we saw V50 and V0 data on the M80 Ball (7.62x51mm), M193 (5.56x45mm), and 7.62x39mm Ball Round

In Level IV, we saw V50 and V0 data on the M855 (5.56x45mm), PS Ball (7.62x39mm), LPS (7.62mmx54R),B32 (7.62mmx54R) Armor-Piercing Incendiary round (API), APM2, and BZ/BS API (7.62x39mm Armor-Piercing Incendiary round)

There's simply no way anyone who has seen the data that we saw could come to any other conclusion other than Dragon Skin is vastly superior to Interceptor Body Armor. It's not even close.

The data proves that in Level III/III+ (SOV-2000) and Level IV (SOV-3000) versions, Dragon skin surpases SAPI and ESAPI performance levels in 9 different areas, by huge margins:

- Ballistic Performance
- Weight
- Multiple Repeat Hit Capability
- Flexibility with the Ability to add coverage
- Durability
- Substantially reduced backface deformation (less trauma to the body)
- Ergonomic capabilities (mission specific, concealed, female rifle defeating capabilities)
- Better edge hit capability

And here's the kicker: the soft armor (ballistic fiber) portion of SOV/Dragon Skin is NIJ Level IIIA-certified, Interceptor's soft armor component is not, and that's a fact. In the interests of saving weight or cost (or both), U.S. Army PEO Soldier and U.S. Army Natick Soldier Center/Soldier Systems Center have apparently elected not to meet NIJ Level IIIA standards for their soft armor component.

Getting back to the hard armor ballistic test data we viewed with our own eyes, the data proves that Dragon Skin's anti-ballistic performance far exceeds the performance levels required to pass NIJ Level III and NIJ Level IV standards. The NIJ standard is a civilian standard that is significantly below the military standard (Secretary of Defense standards)due to bullet type limitations such as API.

Defense Review can't provide the V50 and V0 velocities or information on the number of impacts the armor can handle to the public. Disclosure of this information would violate OPSEC (operational security) for the military and PSC/PMC operators currently wearing Pinnacle Armor SOV/Dragon skin in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Defense Review also viewed a letter from ATC containing information that proves that SOV/Dragon Skin did NOT fail any U.S. Air Force test or requirement, as has been stated by certain parties in the U.S. Army. We viewed the relevant information ourselves.

Bottom line is, all relevant ballistic test data is available for viewing and validation (just like we viewed and validated it), exactly as Pinnacle Armor has offered in their written response to the SOUM and the Pentagon Brief by General Sorenson. Defense Review has validated this ourselves by visiting Pinnacle Armor and carefully scrutinizing all of the data with our own eyes. That data covered a 9 year timeline and validates Pinnacle's statements in their written response.

So, the upshot is that based on the unrefutable ballistic test data that we've seen (again from three recognized ballistic test centers--H.P. White, USTL, and ATC) Lt. Col. Robert Maginnis' (U.S. Army) negative statements about Pinnacle Armor SOV/Dragon Skin to Margaret Warner on News Hour with Jim Lehrer Armor for U.s. Troops In Iraq (Jan. 11, 2006) and Major General Jeffrey A. Sorenson's, Col. John Norwood's (U.S. Army), Col. Thomas Spoehr's(U.S. Army) negative statements about Dragon Skin in his recent news briefing are either ignorant (showing a lack of knowledge of the available ballistic data), outright lies, or deliberately deceptive.

The only other possibility (and this would be giving the total benefit of the doubt to the Army), would be that civilian "experts" like Karl Masters, Steve Pinter, James Zehng, Janet Ward and others at U.S. Army Natick Soldier Center/Soldier Systems Center and PEO soldier who providing the information to the green suiters (Army officers), are responsible for the U.S. Army receiving inaccurate information about SOV/Dragon Skin's true performance capabilities.

By the way, these civilians in the system seem to have built quite a little empire/fiefdom for themselves over the years. This is due to the fact that the military has (for years) outsourced these types of positions at Natick and PEO to such civilians, instead of maintaining them within the military. Unlike military personnel these civilians do not have the same level of oversight or controls on them to maintain the typical checks and balances necessary to ensure true and unbiased evaluation of performance-based products (like SOV/Dragon Skin, for instance) for the protection of the America's soldiers.

So, the aforementioned negative statements by the aforementioned individuals (all U.S. Army personnel)has to come under the category of one of the four (or a combination of two of those, or all four together (ignorance, outright lies, deliberate deception, or out-of-control/off-the reservation civilian personnel inside U.S. Army Natick and PEO Soldier.

Click here to read Pinnacle Armor CEO Murray Neal's response to the U.S. Army's "Safety-of-Use Message" (SOUM) and Major General Jeffrey Sorenson's news briefing.

Click here to read the PDF version of Murray Neal's/Pinnacle Armor's response to the SOUM and Major General Jeffrey Sorenson.


Video Clips and Previous Articles on Pinnacle Armor SOV/Dragon Skin Body Armor:

Right-click on the links below and then click on "Save Target As" (if using Microsoft Internet Explorer browser) or "Save Link As" (if using Mozilla Firefox browser) to download and view the video clips of live-fire testing of Pinnacle Armor SOV/Dragon Skin body armor vs. 7.62x39mm FMJ military ball ammo and 9mm FMJ military ball ammo (multiple rounds of each fired at the vest on full-auto) below:

Pinnacle Armor SOV/Dragon Skin Indoor Shooting Test (Standard Range View) on 1/26/06 -- 21 Rounds 7.62x39mm FMJ military ball ammo fired at 20 feet from AK-47/AKM-variant rifle, and 120 rounds 9mm FMJ military ball ammo fired at 10 feet from Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine gun.

Pinnacle Armor Dragon Skin/SOV Indoor Shooting Test (Uninterrupted Close-Up View) on 1/26/06
-- 21 Rounds 7.62x39mm FMJ military ball ammo fired at 20 feet from AK-47/AKM-variant rifle, and 120 rounds 9mm FMJ military ball ammo fired at 10 feet from HK MP5 subgun.

Pinnacle Armor SOV/Dragon Skin Outdoor Shooting Test (Standard Range View) on 1/27/06 -- 40 rounds of 7.62x39mm FMJ military ball ammo fired at 20 feet from AKM/AK-47-variant rifle, and 150 rounds of 9mm FMJ military ball ammo fired at 10 feet from HK MP5 subgun.
 

Right-click
on the links below and then click on "Save Target As" (if using Microsoft Internet Explorer browser) or "Save Link As" (if using Mozilla Firefox browser) to download and view the following Real Player and Windows Media format video clips of Pinnacle Armor SOV-1000 vs. multiple rounds of 7.62x51mm/.308 Win M80 ball FMJ ammo:

Real Player version (SOV-1000 Dragon Skin vs. multiple rounds of 7.62x51mm/.308 Win. M80 ball ammo)

Windows Media Version (SOV-1000 Dragon Skin vs. multiple rounds of M80 ball 7.62x51mm/.308 Win. FMJ ammo)


The following are links to previous DefRev articles on the ongoing Pinnacle Armor SOV/Dragon Skin vs. Interceptor Body Armor situation (in order from most recent to least recent):


Pinnacle Armor Dragon Skin vs. Interceptor Body Armor Continued...

Is the U.S. Army Deliberately Endangering the Lives of Our Warfighters?

Breaking News: Pinnacle Armor Dragon Skin vs. Interceptor Body Armor--Fight's On

The following are links to previous DefRev articles on the ongoing Pinnacle Armor SOV/Dragon Skin vs. Interceptor Body Armor situation (in order from most recent to least recent):

Pinnacle Armor Responds to U.S. Army SOUM and Gen. Sorenson

Transcript: Gen. Sorenson's statements about Dragon Skin vs. Interceptor armor

Interceptor vs. Dragon Skin: Body Armor Fight Gets Ugly

Pinnacle Armor Dragon Skin vs. Interceptor Body Armor Continued...

Is the U.S. Army Deliberately Endangering the Lives of Our Warfighters?

Breaking News: Pinnacle Armor Dragon Skin vs. Interceptor Body Armor--Fight's On

About the Author: David Crane is a military defense industry analyst and consultant, and the owner/editor-in-chief of DefenseReview.com. He can be contacted by phone at 305-389-1721, or via email at david@defensereview.com

26 posted on 06/20/2007 12:56:37 PM PDT by Yo-Yo (USAF, TAC, 12th AF, 366 TFW, 366 MG, 366 CRS, Mtn Home AFB, 1978-81)
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To: pissant

..in all things military--he's the best...


27 posted on 06/20/2007 1:01:01 PM PDT by WalterSkinner ( In Memory of My Father--WWII Vet and Patriot 1926-2007)
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To: pissant

Thomson / Hunter ‘08. That’s a ticket I could vote for. An engaging, articluaate communicator with conservative credentials and a take-no-prisoners tell-it-like-it-is warrior. Now those are real Republicans. Screw the rest of these RINOs.


28 posted on 06/20/2007 1:17:47 PM PDT by Noumenon (The Koran is the Mein Kampf of a religion that has always aimed to eliminate the others - O. Fallaci)
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To: Noumenon
If we can't get Thompson/Paul, I'll take Thompson/Hunter.

L

29 posted on 06/20/2007 1:25:34 PM PDT by Lurker (Comparing moderate islam to extremist islam is like comparing small pox to plague.)
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To: Noumenon

Hear here!


30 posted on 06/20/2007 1:30:19 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for those in the womb.)
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To: Edgerunner
You still trust the History channel to be unbiased I suppose...hehhehheh

I doubt it's so much bias as "everyone *knows* the brass is a corrupt bunch of incompetent ignoramuses", so anything bad said about them must be true. Honestly, a lot of journalists, like actors and directors, are great story-tellers, but dumb as stumps. I don't hold it against them, but the reality is that people set too much stock in what these people say.

31 posted on 06/20/2007 1:33:52 PM PDT by Zhang Fei
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To: Noumenon

Frankly, they should be the only guys in contention now.


32 posted on 06/20/2007 1:38:00 PM PDT by pissant
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To: Paperdoll

Fotunately for Mr. Neal, he was saved from further emarrassment....didn’t have any vests with him that day.


33 posted on 06/20/2007 1:41:58 PM PDT by RasterMaster (Rudy, Romney & McCain = KENNEDY wing of the Republican Party - Duncan Hunter, President 2008)
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To: pissant
NBC has already done their job....they have smeared the US military.....

just like all lib/dems...it is not the veracity....just the message!!!

34 posted on 06/20/2007 2:21:26 PM PDT by nyyankeefan
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To: nyyankeefan

And the lack of any meaningful correction.


35 posted on 06/20/2007 2:23:03 PM PDT by pissant
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To: pissant

Duncan Hunter is what so many have been looking for. Too bad many want to buy into the ‘can’t win’ BS. It’s too early for that but Duncan Hunter is worth fighting for and supporting and we are in desperate need for a real leader and this great man will provide it.


36 posted on 06/20/2007 2:37:15 PM PDT by bushfamfan (DUNCAN HUNTER FOR PRES. IN 2008)
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To: bushfamfan

The two words I think that best describe him (other than conservative) are wise and fearless.


37 posted on 06/20/2007 2:40:30 PM PDT by pissant
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To: Lurker

Yep - that would also work for me, although Paul’s libertarianism runs off into the weeds on occasion.


38 posted on 06/20/2007 3:25:09 PM PDT by Noumenon (The Koran is the Mein Kampf of a religion that has always aimed to eliminate the others - O. Fallaci)
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To: absolootezer0; big'ol_freeper; Brilliant; Ultra Sonic 007

>dragon skin is an awesome concept, its just not refined yet.<

Yes, based on the ancient concept of chain mail, I think. If you want to see research go forward on it, vote for the Congressman who will see that it is done right, Duncan Hunter.

And just today I received some very attractive caps, made in USA with USA materials, by LEGAL labor! They have the Ranger insignia with ‘HUNTER’ in it; are easily adjusted to head size. I AM WEARING ONE AS I WRITE THIS!

If you send your check made out to ‘Hunter for President 08’ for $100, or $50 or $75 (if you absolutely cannot afford $100) with your return address to: Duncan Hunter Pacific NW Campaign Coordinator, 4445 53rd Ave. SW, Seattle, WA.98116-3912 we will see that you get one very soon. Thank you.

Oh, also, if you have recently made a donation in that amount, please let the Coordinator know it, at bckeller@worldnet.att.net, and after confirmation of receipt of same, he will send one to you!


39 posted on 06/20/2007 4:02:02 PM PDT by Paperdoll ( Vote for Duncan Hunter in the Primaries for America's sake!)
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To: Ajnin
Have you personally witnessed this?

Well, in your post 12, you cite with authority "videos" you have seen, and invoke the History Channel, to boot!

Exactly what have you personally witnessed on this subject?

CA....

40 posted on 06/20/2007 4:12:36 PM PDT by Chances Are (Whew! It seems I've once again found that silly grin!)
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