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To: betty boop; tacticalogic

Tactic..If that is the case, how could any civilization based on a “naturalist worldview” have any kind of system or concept of law, justice, crime, or punishment?

Irish...Yes indeed, there were some good concepts from pre-Biblical times. However, those concepts centered upon and therefore aided and abetted the ‘few’ and not the ‘many.” History of those times speaks of subhumans and of the massive system of slavery in which they lived and died. Gladiators were slaves who fought and died for the amusement of their ‘betters.’ Their lifeless bodies were then tossed into ‘fleshpots’ and cooked as food for the poorest of the poor ‘subhumans.’ Babies were routinely burned to death within the fiery stomach of Molech.

These horrors and much more were committed because the pagans believed that mankind was created by anthropomophized ‘matter’ deities who in turn had, ‘evolved’ out of an eternally existing ‘Original Substance.” In this view, man is an aggressive parasite despoiling his ‘creator.’ The atonement for the sin of living calls for human sacrifice, and various ‘scientific’ means of population control.
It’s man’s duty to ‘die.”

Modern evolutionism is simply pre-Biblical naturalism minus the anthropomorphized matter deities. And as usual, the modern version has been doing everything the pre-Biblical version did: weeding out and killing the aggressive parasites.


197 posted on 06/23/2007 11:47:38 AM PDT by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish; tacticalogic; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe
Tactic..If that is the case, how could any civilization based on a “naturalist worldview” have any kind of system or concept of law, justice, crime, or punishment?

Short answer: It couldn't (see below). Therefore, under the scenario of the "naturalist worldview," what we in the West call civilization would be impossible.

Yet we see that civilization does occur every now and then. Though it appears to be far more fragile than any of us would have imagined. Possibly this is because people still continue to try to found its ultimate universal principles in nature itself. Which is tantamount to saying that nature is at liberty to make up its own rules as it goes along. Which tells you exactly nothing about the constitution of nature other than that it is a chaos in random distribution, and thus fundamentally incapable of generating universal laws. Thus the statement that systems or concepts of law, justice, etc., can be premised on the assumptions of the "naturalist worldview" is based on a self-contradiction.

Plus the statement does not address Leibniz's two great questions: (1) Why is there something, instead of nothing at all?; and (2) Why are things the way they are, and not some other way?

199 posted on 06/23/2007 1:56:45 PM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein)
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To: spirited irish
... the pagans believed that mankind was created by anthropomophized ‘matter’ deities who in turn had, ‘evolved’ out of an eternally existing ‘Original Substance.” Pagans?... Mormonism holds that view of God's origins even today.
200 posted on 06/23/2007 4:38:15 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for those in the womb.)
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To: spirited irish
Irish...Yes indeed, there were some good concepts from pre-Biblical times. However, those concepts centered upon and therefore aided and abetted the ‘few’ and not the ‘many.” History of those times speaks of subhumans and of the massive system of slavery in which they lived and died. Gladiators were slaves who fought and died for the amusement of their ‘betters.’ Their lifeless bodies were then tossed into ‘fleshpots’ and cooked as food for the poorest of the poor ‘subhumans.’ Babies were routinely burned to death within the fiery stomach of Molech.

I didn't as if they did, I asked how it would have been possible, given the premise that the didn't believe in "free will" or "personal responsibility", dramatic claims of ancient Roman Soylent Green notwithstanding.

These horrors and much more were committed because the pagans believed that mankind was created by anthropomophized ‘matter’ deities who in turn had, ‘evolved’ out of an eternally existing ‘Original Substance.” In this view, man is an aggressive parasite despoiling his ‘creator.’ The atonement for the sin of living calls for human sacrifice, and various ‘scientific’ means of population control. It’s man’s duty to ‘die.”

Modern evolutionism is simply pre-Biblical naturalism minus the anthropomorphized matter deities. And as usual, the modern version has been doing everything the pre-Biblical version did: weeding out and killing the aggressive parasites.

Yeah. Science is pagan religion. Got it.

215 posted on 06/24/2007 1:35:20 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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