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To: betty boop
In the first place, there is absolutely no way a human being can ever be "perfectly objective."

Blah, blah, blah. Yada, yada, yada.

None of which changes the fact that a person who holds a substantive theological doctrine of creation is meaningfully called a "creationist". And a creationist who substantively rejects evolution is an antievolutionary creationist.

Virtually all Muslims (like virtually all serious monotheists) are creationists, and the vast majority of Islamists (conservative, "fundamentalist" Muslims) are antievolutionary creationists.

Why you would belabor this is astounding.

186 posted on 06/22/2007 9:17:31 PM PDT by Stultis (I don't worry about the war turning into "Vietnam" in Iraq; I worry about it doing so in Congress.)
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To: Stultis; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe
Virtually all Muslims (like virtually all serious monotheists) are creationists, and the vast majority of Islamists (conservative, "fundamentalist" Muslims) are antievolutionary creationists.... Why you would belabor this is astounding.

My point is simply this: a person whose entire education consists of memorizing the Q'uran by rote has never had an opportunity to cultivate the mind or to engage in a life of reason. The dispute between creationists and evolutionists is premised on reason, on rationality. The vast majority of Muslims in this world -- i.e., those within the orbit of Arab Wahhabism -- are simply irrational. They cannot even get into the debate. You can call them creationists if you want to. I have no objection. Probably that term would mean very little to most of these people.

The exceptions would be such as the "Turk," whose book you cited, and the link to whose website I posted earlier. This is obviously a highly well-educated and cultured person. Which should come as no surprise: Turkey used to be a part of the Christian orbit; Constantinople (now Istanbul) was a highly cosmopolitan city with a rich tradition of scholarship and a culture mainly informed from Christian and Greco-Roman roots. That tradition still has legs in the modern world. Although the Wahhabist infection, a fairly recent phenomenon, appears to be metastasizing in modern Turkey. It now appears that very shortly "secular" Turkey will succumb to a theocracy premised on Sharia. That is the trend in Islam these days: to swallow up cultures premised on liberal traditions that respect education and the life of the mind, replacing them with modes of understanding and social organization that are "reactionary" and primitive.

And you want to argue about whether or not to label these people as creationists? Fine! I have no objection, other than to note that doing so seems pretty pointless to me. FWIW.

193 posted on 06/23/2007 10:22:09 AM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein)
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