NBC Accuses Pentagon of Using Less Safe Body Armor… But is it? (Dragon Skin Body Armor)

http://newsbusters.org/ ^ | June 18, 2007 | Warner Todd Huston

[Brilliant]

I would like to know if the military did tests on the “fiberglass humvees” and concluded that they were better than armored humvees. The primary reason for this dispute is that the manufacturer is desperate to sell his armor to the military and the media loves to bash the military, so they’ve joined forces. I can’t see any reason why the military would falsify tests, and then come out swinging when NBC tried to convince us that the armor is better than what we’ve got.

[Little Ray]

Noticed something else in your post, in that SF troops were wearing them for security details. Does this involve the same amount of tramping around as a patrol? Thats another reason they might have chosen them - more and heavier armor, in roles where mobility was not required. Just a WAG.
I DO know I’ve read about troops complaining about too much body armor making it hard for them to move quickly.
I’m all for troops have the best armor and weapons possible (up to and including nuke-launching powered armor suits) but I’m not for letting politicians decide that this is - too much “built in my district” stuff goin’ on.
Come to think of it, though, there is also a big revolving door between military contractors and the Pentagon.

[SFC Chromey]

NBC didn’t think this story up. This has been an ongoing issue serveral years. I mention Col Hackworth and his site http://www.sftt.org/ so you can go look at it yourself. They are the ones that started documenting the runaround they were getting from the Pentagon.

The armored humvees are a pure afterthought. The Army, and everyone else bought them to be a Jeep replacement, nothing more. So yes the Pentagon at some stage determined it would be better to go with aluminum and fiberglass vehicles, instead of armored humvees. We had NO mass-produced survivable vehicles before the armored humvee. My company didn’t get armored humvees until a full 6 months into our deployment.

[rbosque]

[lOKKI]

About the fiberglass Humvee remarks.

Please. The Humvee was never intended as a armoured personnel carrier. It’s an improved version of the Jeep.

As always happens in war, the enemy has found a weakness and exploited. We have responded to that exploitation, and they’ve escalated as well.

The same is true with body armour. Attack begat better defense which in turn begets better attacks.

[Brilliant]

Just make the armor company warrant the armor, and hand it out to any soldier who prefers it. If the casualties go up, the truth will soon be known.

[riverrunner]

“The armored humvees are a pure afterthought. The Army, and everyone else bought them to be a Jeep replacement, nothing more. So yes the Pentagon at some stage determined it would be better to go with aluminum and fiberglass vehicles, instead of armored humvees. We had NO mass-produced survivable vehicles before the armored humvee. My company didn’t get armored humvees until a full 6 months into our deployment.”

Wow! You got armored humvees after only 6 months of deployment! What a fantastically quick response to the problem. And, American engineers and the supply system was able to figure out how to armor a vehicle that was never intended as an armored vehicle! I will always be amazed by American ability and ingenuity!

Now, really, tell me that you would trade American equipment for Russian, or Chinese, or Brazilian.

The American military supply system is not as efficient as it could be, or absolutely the best in every subsystem or bit of equipment. We do not live in a perfect universe, and hindsight is always easier to use than foresight.

The American system is simply better than all contenders, mostly because we can afford it.

[ozzymandus]

I don’t believe a single word from NBC or the late Hackworth.

[SFC Chromey]

Wow! You got armored humvees after only 6 months of deployment! What a fantastically quick response to the problem. And, American engineers and the supply system was able to figure out how to armor a vehicle that was never intended as an armored vehicle! I will always be amazed by American ability and ingenuity!

---

Thank you for re-iterating my point that the Humvee was never intended to be an armored vehicle.

However, in 2003, the Army did have armored Humvees but they were all located in Bosnia and Kosovo. Armored Humvees kept my soldiers alive. The vehicles we received were shipped from Bosnia, because the Army never requisitioned enough of them for sustained combat operations.

At no point did I suggest we get our vehicles from any other country, let alone a Communist one. That stupid idea came from your own mind.

Part of my point, hence my tagline, is that our soldiers are at war, yet our economy is not supporting it. There should be no question that any auto plant about to be shuttered could re-tool and build armored vehicles that can handle what we are facing. I have heard no one suggest that be done. From the Prez on down the soldiers, Marines, Airmen, and their families are in the seemingly on their
own in this fight.

The system is not as efficient as it could be, and with outside oversight, like Col. Hackworth provided, it can be made better.

[airedale]

Just curious does ABC equip its reporters, camera men, etc. with Dragon Skin armor or do they send them out with something less effective? It would seem they would want the very best and it would be a scandal if they based upon their own reporting didn’t provide their staff with Dragon Skin armor.