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To: 3AngelaD
Makes sense to me.

Hmmm. So it all makes sense, except that it doesn't.

The posit here is that "amnesty" is really not directed at the mex's themselves, but amnesty for big-biz to protect them for when the ultra-antibiz Hillary sweeps all these pro-amnesty congressmen out of office in 2008.

Which, of course, means that Prez-2008 will have the oppty to crack down on illegal-supporting big-businesses even more. Give 30Million mex's amnesty, and there will always be another wave of subsequent illegals to prosecute over.

Supposing Jawa is correct, then he undercuts his own premise right there.

If you're an illegal hiring big-biz owner, then you DO NOT want an amnesty bill. Amnesty gives your existing cheap labor rights to min wage etc. And Amnesty doesn't indemnify you from the Hillary Federal Govt coming down on you in 2009, it makes it worse.

If you're an illegal hiring big-biz owner, you want to keep illegals illegal and cheap, and you want to keep your protectors in congressional seats continuously.

A law cannot protect you because it can be overturned at any given time.

17 posted on 06/16/2007 8:30:02 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: sam_paine

Except that the bill ensures the status quo of continued taxpayer subsidies for the employees of the businesses employing illegals, in fact, it writes such subsidies into law.


22 posted on 06/16/2007 8:35:53 AM PDT by 3AngelaD (They screwed up their own countries so bad they had to leave, and now they're here screwing up ours)
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To: sam_paine
Which, of course, means that Prez-2008 will have the oppty to crack down on illegal-supporting big-businesses even more

He/she may have the opportunity but not the will. Sure Hillary might make some token busts, but real enforcement will not be implemented. The Dems are not going to alienate their constituency.

If you're an illegal hiring big-biz owner, then you DO NOT want an amnesty bill. Amnesty gives your existing cheap labor rights to min wage etc. And Amnesty doesn't indemnify you from the Hillary Federal Govt coming down on you in 2009, it makes it worse.

It is not big biz but small to medium biz that doesn't want amnesty. Still, without any real enforcement, it really is meaningless. If you believe that Hillary is really going to enforce this bill, you're nuts. The Dems are the ones fighting the building of a fence. They will listening to interest groups like La Raza. With 45 million Hispanics now and a birthrate twice as high as that of the rest of the American population, the rapid Hispanic population boom in the coming decades is just starting. And so is their political clout. They will use our own political system to hang us.

If you're an illegal hiring big-biz owner, you want to keep illegals illegal and cheap, and you want to keep your protectors in congressional seats continuously. A law cannot protect you because it can be overturned at any given time.

A law is meaningless if it is not enforced. We don't have the bureaucracy capable of enforcing these laws. The resources just aren't there nor is the political will.

66 posted on 06/16/2007 10:26:22 AM PDT by kabar
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To: sam_paine
If you're an illegal hiring big-biz owner, then you DO NOT want an amnesty bill. Amnesty gives your existing cheap labor rights to min wage etc.

Oh, I believe you'd want this particular amnesty bill, considering the provision least mentioned by its supporters: the so-called "temporary Z visa." From the moment the bill is signed, there will be no deportations, since all illegals will be assumed to be eligible. DHS has six months to set up a system for registering these people (with that exhaustive 24-hour background check). I doubt they will meet that deadline, and even if they do, the registration period can be extended or renewed (a given, considering the sheer numbers, the historic inefficiency of any government bureaucracy and the fact that extensions have been granted in every previous immigration bill), and that presumption of eligibility will continue.

There's no specific deportation rules or deadline set down for non-registrants; and no way of even estimating what percentage of illegals have registered at any given point, considering the 12 million figure is very likely a gross underestimation. So you wind up with an amorphous mess of a population of non-registered illegals mixed with Z-visa holders, and an indefinite period of business as usual, compounded by the fact that employers are actually forbidden, according to this bill, to use the government status-checking system as a prerequisite of employment. They must hire first, then check, wait for results from the same slow bureaucracy, then allow an appeal by the employee, yada, yada, yada.

Regarding the rush to amnesty, this has been Bush's holy grail from the moment of his inauguration. 9/11 threw a huge monkey-wrench into his plans, or he would have pushed something through in his first term (he tried, then dropped it). As it stands now, it's his last chance, with the only constraint being getting it "out of the way" before the primaries; because, of course, we dumb, xenophobic Americans have short memories and all will be forgotten soon.

I also don't believe the congress critters believe their future is doomed; rather I think they've convinced themselves that 2006 proved conservatism is dying, and that centrism, as exemplified by both Clinton and GW Bush, is the bright new promised land to which these privileged few have been ordained to lead us all.

Hillary? She's more likely to push for en-masse naturalization of the new Democrat base of temporary (and indefinitely renewable) Z-visa holders than raid businesses.

71 posted on 06/16/2007 11:07:22 AM PDT by browardchad
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