Sikh soldier of the 11th Sikh Regiment with a captured Nazi flag in Italy at the end of the Second World War.
Posted on 06/11/2007 7:36:52 PM PDT by traumer
Sikhs have gone to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg to challenge a French law banning the wearing of turbans for ID documents. The United Sikhs organisation filed a complaint on behalf of French national Shingara Mann Singh, 52, who was refused a replacement driver's licence.
By law applicants have to remove all headgear for security reasons. A French law adopted in 2004 also bans the wearing of conspicuous religious symbols in state schools.
Several Sikh boys have been expelled from schools in France for defying the ban, which also applies to Muslim headscarves.
Stolen
Mr Singh was twice refused a replacement driver's licence - in 2005 and 2006 - because he insisted on wearing his turban for the photograph. He has been a French national for more than 20 years. "I will give up my head but not my turban, which covers my unshorn hair," he said, quoted by United Sikhs.
His licence was stolen two years ago, he said, and "before the robbery, at no time was I asked to substitute the photograph with one showing me without a turban".
The Sikh religion requires males to wear their hair unshorn and covered at all times by a turban - a key aspect of their identity.
> Sikhs have gone to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg to challenge a French law banning the wearing of turbans for ID documents.
Good on the Sikhs. Their tradition of wearing turbans is well-known and generally respected, for good religious reasons.
Yup. They can wear them in 'their' country all they want. I'm sick and tired of immigrants moving to other countries and asking the natives to change for them.
Times are different now. I don't know any Sikhs or have any ax to grind with them.
Religions are known by their adherents, which puts Sikhs over Muslims a thousand over. If Islam is so interested in not being singled out for “persecution” let it police itself...which is impossible.
Yeah. I had a Sikh coworker a while back. I don't think I'd recognize him without his turban. I don't know what the point of having an ID photo without it would have been.
You can add me to the list. I actually cheered when FL ruled that some lady could not wear a veil for her driver's license picture. My attitude's the same: If you don't like our way of doing things, go somewhere else...quickly.
<sarcasm>
Darn tootin'! Where did they get the idea that they could practice their religion without government approval in this country?! The Constitution? Well, go read Dred Scott vs. Sandford and you'll learn that the Constitution only applies to white people.
What? That was overturned? You... you mean anyone has a right to freely practice their religion in this country?! Oh no!!!!!
</sarcasm>
I once had Sikh friends. Great people. I even learned to wrap their turbans! And they have no love for Muslims, so I’d rather have Sikh immigrants than Muslim, given a choice- BUT.
In this case the laws seem aimed at preventing Muslims from Islamifying France, and others have to suffer in the process. If you allow turbans under ‘religious custom’, you’ll have to allow Muslims drivers licenses with only their eyes showing under their rags. It’s a slippery slope.
The Sikhs have been dealing with Islamist violence and oppression since their religion was born. Their religion forbids them from associating with anybody who harms their daughter, and they are forbidden from even ridiculing other religions. I hope nobody makes the mistake of lumping them in with turban-wearing adherents of other, less benevolent religious traditions.
Sikh soldier of the 11th Sikh Regiment with a captured Nazi flag in Italy at the end of the Second World War.
> Yup. They can wear them in ‘their’ country all they want. I’m sick and tired of immigrants moving to other countries and asking the natives to change for them.
Ok, if you’d prefer, then let’s not view it from a Respect and Decency viewpoint, but from a Practical Identification viewpoint.
It would be truly difficult to identify a male Sikh without his turban, for he is never seen without it. Maybe when he showers, but that is all. You see, it conceals all of his hair, which has not been cut. The Turban keeps it all tidy.
Far more effective to photo him with his turban on, from a practical viewpoint. Because that is how the cops will always see him when they pull him over, and that is how the Border Control folk will always see him when he gets onto a plane. He will always be wearing his turban: it is an essential part of his identity.
It does more harm than good to make him do otherwise. So you’ll get a photo of a long-haired Indian that is perfectly useless for all practical intents and purposes, because in real life he will always be wearing a Turban.
> Times are different now. I don’t know any Sikhs or have any ax to grind with them.
Recommended: get to know a few Sikhs. They are wonderful people and make very brave and competent elite soldiers, because soldiering comes naturally to them. And they are (on balance) very hospitable people whose food is legendary and whose friendship is genuine.
They did not rebel against the British during the Sepoy mutiny, but remained staunch and faithful. They are so well-respected that their headgear was allowed for in the British uniform. Even today, there is an “official” Sikh turban authorized for use by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.
Check out here if in doubt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh_Regiment
Most of them speak superb English.
Good blokes, the Sikhs. Ideal citizens for any country to have: law-abiding, they assimilate well and contribute positively to Society. Highly recommended.
Every neighborhood should contain a few Sikhs.
*DieHard*
> No problem Mr. Singh, just don’t drive.
Plenty of Sikhs drive taxis. In some cities they dominate the taxi marketplace.
But of course you’d probably prefer one of these Somali Muslim taxi drivers who will refuse to take you from the airport if you are carrying alcohol, ay.
From having a sikh who lives NEXT DOOR to me and after researching his religion thoroughly, I have concluded that Sikhs are completely cool and should be respected. However, the knife they are required to wear might make you squeamish if you don’t have a concealed carry permit. Just kiddin, my wonderful Johnny Walker whiskey drinking next door Punjabi neighbor.
Sound like good, decent people. Thanks for the detail. My neighbor is from NZ...he tries to get me to join him while watching his favorite sports team, The All Blacks, but I don’t. lol.
Check out this link if you need to have any reassurances about Sikhs, their soldiering and their bravery:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saragarhi
Good guys to have on your side. America could use a few FRiends like these guys in the WOT.
*DieHard*
That makes plenty o' sense to me. It's not like a ski mask where you can't identify the face. And indeed, what good is telling 'em to remove the turban? Are they gonna go up to every "turbinated" guy on the street and ask 'em to remove it so they can compare it to their daily "be on the lookout" sheet? Let 'em wear the turbans. If it becomes a national security issue and they want to get all the Siks, it'll be easy to round up the suspects. Pick the guys with the turbans!
Like most fanatics, they are nuts!
Indira Gandhi was advised to remove Sikhs from her closest security but she refused to do so. On October 31, 1984, two of Indira Gandhi’s Sikh bodyguards, Satwant Singh and Beant Singh, assassinated her in the garden of the Prime Minister’s Residence at No. 1, Safdarjung Road in New Delhi. As she was walking to be interviewed by the British actor Peter Ustinov filming a documentary for Irish television, she passed a wicket gate, guarded by Satwant Singh and Beant Singh, where they proceeded to open fire with their machine pistols before being shot themselves by other bodyguards. One bodyguard was killed and the other wounded.
Gandhi died on her way to the hospital, in her official car, but was not declared dead until many hours later. She was taken to the All India Institute of Medical Sciences, where doctors operated on her and reportedly removed 31 bullets from her body.
> And they were the guardians of the head of India!
> They did not like what they did or said and killed the person they were guarding.
> Like most fanatics, they are nuts!
WTF?
Mate, you can describe Sikhs as many things, but “Fanatics” is not one of them. “They” killed the head of India? Who was that, and when?
Learn a bit about the Sikhs, ay. Great soldiers, highly decorated and well-respected by the British Army. Here’s a good place to start:
http://www.contentmart.com/ContentMart/content.asp?LinkID=26663&CatID=249&content=1
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