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To: antiRepublicrat

You are so lost, I’m not sure where to begin.

First of all, Phillip Johnson and other at the Discovery Institute really believe that ID is a reality. They are not making it up to “further their agenda.” If they were trying to “sell” ID without really believing it themselves, then they would be dishonest, but they are not.

Secondly, many great scientists also believed in ID — even before science had a clue about the amazing complexity of the “simplest” living cell. Louis Pasteur, the father of modern biology wrote, “The more I study nature, the more I am amazed at the work of the Creator.” Now, call me naive, but if Pasteur did not believe in ID, would he find “the work of the Creator” by studying nature?

Thirdly, the “agenda” of the Discovery Institute is completely independent of the reality of the existence or non-existence of ID. You don’t seem to understand that point, because you keep going back to their “agenda” instead of addressing ID itself. And when you do address ID, you simply make assertions and invoke arrogant appeals to authority.

A few posts back I quoted from astronomer Fred Hoyle, who according to Wikipedia was an atheist, explaining why ID is undeniable. Let me give a fuller version of this quote from a lecture he gave in 1982:

“So if one proceeds directly and straightforwardly in this matter, without being deflected by a fear of incurring the wrath of scientific opinion, one arrives at the conclusion that biomaterials with their amazing measure of order must be the outcome of intelligent design. No other possibility I have been able to think of in pondering this issue over quite a long time seems to me to have anything like as high a possibility of being true. ... The notion that not only the biopolymer but the operating program of a living cell could be arrived at by chance in a primordial organic soup here on the Earth is evidently nonsense of a high order.”

—Sir Fred Hoyle, British astonomer, 1982

The difference between you and Hoyle is that Hoyle has thought about the problem, whereas you apparently have not. As a result, your posts constitute “nonsense of a high order.”


149 posted on 06/16/2007 11:26:13 PM PDT by RussP
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To: RussP
First of all, Phillip Johnson and other at the Discovery Institute really believe that ID is a reality. They are not making it up to “further their agenda.”

How can you possibly say that? I've posted their own statements, their own documents, that conclusively show their agenda is not science, but to bring more people to Christianity.

Secondly, many great scientists also believed

There's your problem, "believe." As I showed, Darwin believed too, but he did not try to put forth is belief as science.

Thirdly, the “agenda” of the Discovery Institute is completely independent of the reality of the existence or non-existence of ID.

They founded the modern ID movement. They and their members publish almost all ID books and papers. ID is defined by them.

The difference between you and Hoyle is that Hoyle has thought about the problem

Hoyle thought life came from outer space. Where did that outer space life come from? He just moves the problem of origins one step back.

150 posted on 06/17/2007 12:07:04 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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