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Posted on 06/06/2007 7:35:28 AM PDT by Reaganesque
MANCHESTER, N.H. — Mitt Romney defended his LDS faith onstage during the Republican presidential debate Tuesday as all 10 candidates tried to distinguish themselves from each other to an audience full of undecided Republican and independent New Hampshire voters.
Topics ranged from evolution to immigration to the war in Iraq, but CNN's Wolf Blitzer specifically asked Romney about his religion.
"What would you like to say to the voters out there tonight about your faith, about yourself and about God?" Blitzer asked Romney, who is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Blitzer said 10 percent of New Hampshire voters polled said they would not vote for Romney because he is Mormon.
Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts, said former President John F. Kennedy said he was not a Catholic running for president but an American running for president — but he did think it was a fair question to ask.
"I think if you want to understand what I believe, you could recognize that the values that I have are the same values you'll find in faiths across this country," Romney said. "I believe in God, believe in the Bible, believe Jesus Christ is my savior. I believe that God created man in his image. I believe that the freedoms of man derive from inalienable rights that were given to us by God."
Romney said he believes some political pundits are "hoping" he will distance himself from the church to help him politically.
"That's not going to happen," Romney said, drawing some applause from the crowd.
After the speech, in a Saint Anselm College gym-turned-"Spin Room," Romney's son Tagg said questions about his father's faith came up when he ran for governor of a predominantly Catholic state.
"As time went on, people realized that he wasn't running as a Mormon for office," Tagg Romney said. "The issue of religion faded into the background."
Tagg Romney said he would not take a Kennedy-esque speech about religion completely off the table yet for his dad but does not foresee a need for it at this point.
He said voters need to get to know his dad, see what he did for the successful Salt Lake City 2002 Winter Olympics, in business, and for Massachusetts.
Immigration was a predominant topic with Romney taking a small shot at Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz, who has criticized Romney for "flip-flop- ping" on the issue.
McCain said in Florida on Monday that Romney was "pandering for votes on the issue but offering no real solution."
Romney reminded that audience that McCain "campaigned for me two times" and that he wasn't going to make this a matter of personal politics.
Romney wants a secure border and employer verification enforcement, which is part of a pending bill in the Senate, but he does take issue with the "Z visa."
"What it allows is people who have come here illegally to stay here for the rest of their lives — not necessarily as citizens; they have to wait 13 years to become citizens. That's not the point," Romney said during the debate. "The point is: Every illegal alien, almost every one, under this bill, gets to stay here. That's not fair to the millions and millions of people around the world that would love to come here, join with family members, bring skill and education that we need."
Romney said it is "not fair" that those who have come here illegally are put to the front of the line of those waiting to come into the country legally.
McCain said the legislation "weeds out those who shouldn't be here, and it gives others a chance to remain in this country.
"Look, this is a national security issue, first and foremost," McCain said. "Ever since 9/11, it's a national security issue."
Romney said he wants to enforce the law Congress passed in 1986 "and take that Z visa and make it temporary instead of a permanent right to stay in America."
The first question of the night was directed to Romney, asking if he thought it was a mistake to invade Iraq, knowing everything he knows right now. Romney called the question "non sequitur" and a "null set."
"I supported the president's decision based on what we knew at that time," Romney said. "I think we were underprepared and underplanned for what came after we knocked down Saddam Hussein."
He said that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., who is also LDS, was wrong.
"We did not lose the war in Iraq," Romney said. "And that's not the sort of thing you say when you have men and women in harm's way."
Within minutes, Democratic National Committee spokesman Damien LaVera sent a release titled "Real Time Romney Watch 1: Mitt misleads on Sen. Reid/Iraq War," pointing out that Reid has said the war "can only be won diplomatically, politically and economically."
The DNC spoke against Romney in an e-mail later in the evening, saying he "can't say when he'll decide if Bush's Iraq plan is working. Then he refuses to talk about it on the stump. Now he can't even say if he thinks the decision to go to war was as mistake!"
Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani said invading Iraq was "absolutely the right thing to do."
"It's unthinkable that you would leave Saddam Hussein in charge of Iraq and be able to fight the war on terror," Giuliani said.
McCain also said, "We did the right thing."
That was his spin only after he got heat for announcing that the war was lost.
And the writer of this article was wrong for allowing Dingy Harry to skate on the basis of this follow-up statement.
Bibbity boppity boo. Don’t mind me, just passing through. Hippity hoppity hoo.
“I believe in God, believe in the Bible, believe Jesus Christ is my savior. I believe that God created man in his image. I believe that the freedoms of man derive from inalienable rights that were given to us by God.”
Well, that is a slippery political interpretation coming from Bishop Mitt.
1) He believes in multiple Gods, not just God. Please be truthful.
2) He believes in a retranslated Bible, plus the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, which all override the Bible. Mitt’s not being very truthful again.
3) He believes Jesus Christ is his savior, but that he can rise to be an equivalent.
4) He believes that God created man in his image - a multitude of god embryos. I’m sure he won’t tell Americans that.
5) He believes that the freedoms of man derives from inalienable rights that were given to us by God - at least he got that one right.
He was only able to answer one out of five truthfully, which would fit the rest of his image.
[Romney said he believes some political pundits are “hoping” he will distance himself from the church to help him politically.
“That’s not going to happen,” Romney said, drawing some applause from the crowd.]
Except, he just did distance himself from the church by hiding their doctrines. And nary a whisper of his being a High Melchizedek Priest, that will have to be hushed up for him to remain viable. Heres what he really believes about the Bible, according to doctrine:
[http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/emmain.asp?number=216
VIEW OF THE BIBLE. The official position of the Church is stated in its eighth article of faith: “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly.” The message of the Bible is held to be true, while details of accuracy and completeness are accepted within certain limits. The Prophet Joseph Smith explained: “I believe the Bible as it read when it came from the pen of the original writers. Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors” (TPJS, p. 327). ]
We use the KJV in our study of the Bible. The JST is used only as a supplement. The fact that you find this statement to be full of lies speaks more of your biases than it does of Mitt’s character.
Well, hard to know what to say to this. His statement is full of broad generalities, true as far as they go but, as FastCoyote says, meaning something rather different from what most people would take them to mean.
Are these generalities a lie? No. Are they somewhat misleading? Probably. Can you blame him for not going into details about the Mormon faith when it might get him in trouble with the voters? Not really, everyone does it.
But I am still bothered that Romney is very smooth with these broad generalities in many areas, yet not clearly to be counted on. I don’t find his Mormonism a problem, but I am disturbed about the many inconsistencies of his positions on gay marriage or partnership and abortion, among others. You can’t blame a politician for trying to avoid offending various constituencies during a campaign, but you can blame him for flip flopping, which I believe he has done, and would do again if elected.
LDS Doctrine: lesson manuals, scriptures online
(I recommend the book Gospel Essentials to get a good, overall idea of LDS beliefs.)
Recent General Conference addresses - LDS sermons in text and audio
I actually agree with you.
But I'm going to continue to post information for those who might read the Mormon-bashing stuff and believe it, so they can get the truth about our beliefs. I'll only post it in response to anti-Mormon posts.
BTW, you're free to skip over the posts that annoy you. :-)
Theology is not a sound basis for evaluating presidential candidates. It is a matter of faith, not science or fact. No human knows the mind of God. No human can authoritatively state his interpretation of God is correct while someone else’s is wrong. Lack of humility on this unknowable is what leads to religious wars.
It is inconceivable that God would approve of battles over theology. There is great wisdom in the adminition to “judge not, lest ye be judged.” Those who forget this make fools of themselves and surely must be at odds with God. This is why we are appalled by the Jihadists who presume that God has sanctioned/ordered them to kill others humans in his name.
The key is to assess the policies advocated and the character of the candidates. If you like Romney’s policy positions and trust him to try to implement them, vote for him. If you don’t like his policy positions or don’t trust him to try to implement them, vote for someone else.
I am not a Mormon, but from what I have observed of the behavior of the vast majority of persons of this faith, they seem to be of good character. If this good character is inspired by their faith, it seems wrongheaded to judge Mormons harshly because their theology seems strange. From the outside, all faiths harbor beliefs that seem strange to nonbelievers.
If there were a good conservative Republican who was also a practicing Muslim, I wonder if there would be as many folks inclined to him as there are here to Mitt...just asking?
Holy Nephi, TChris, you don't need to do that as the TRUTH about LDS is best summed up in historian Fawn Brodie's prize-winning "No Man Knows My History"!
My main beef with Mitt is the fact that he took very different positions on issues as important as aborton when running for the Governor of Massachusetts than he does when running for President. He was either hiding his real views to advance his ambition then or he is doing it now. Or has he been telling people what they want to hear all along? We have a poor trio of top three (declared) candidates. Flip-flopping Mitt isn’t the answer anymore than Rino Rudy and Crazy John McCain are.
Well, your point was that Mitt's faith shouldn't be a factor, but if wouldn't vote for Muslims, Hindus or Buddhists, then I submit you're employing a double standard.
Mormons do not have a reputation for blowing other people up. As unfair as that reputation is to the majority of Muslims who don’t, for those whom it is fair, it is a well earned one. And when you have a population of millions and millions, even a small minority can number in the tens if not hundreds of thousands of people. That is a legitimate and pressing concern. There is no such reputation regarding Mormons.
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