These must be some of the good and decent people that Bush was speaking of.
Posted on 06/01/2007 3:46:27 PM PDT by BornInASmallTown
Bush will “dragon punch” conservatives over this bill.
“Unfortunately, the ‘nation’ he’s talking about is Mexico.
Still waiting for him to use the term ‘United States’...”
LOL!
Don’t worry, he and his elitist buddies in Mexico probably have a nice catchy name already picked out... like “The United States of the Americas” — or something along those lines.
Keep up the good work.
These must be some of the good and decent people that Bush was speaking of.
Nope. If the Congress votes for this and he signs it, the law would have been crafted under the Constitution even if unpopular. Presidents can pardon lawbreakers pretty much at their discretion, so he probably could grant amnesty on his own anyway. Coming up with a realistic plan to deal with a current problem shows courage, unless you believe that illegals have only been coming to this country since January 2001.
I figured out how Duncan Hunter can get his traction:
File articles of Impeachment. :)
Yeah. It bothered me when big bush was pres and talked of THE NEW WORLD ORDER. How long ago was that? He never got questioned about what that meant. If this POS bill makes it to little bush’s desk we’ve got a problem. The house is the only hope as I see it. North American Union. New world order. Oh s**t no. We’re just paranoid nuts. Like Savage and Rush and Tancredo and Hunter and Byrd and.....
If it were merely about "forgiveness", all the bill would do is provide that people who voluntarily deport themselves to Mexico will not be punished for the fact that they came here in the first place.
This bill is about REWARDING ILLEGAL ACTIVITY. Not merely forgiving it. So those who say it's not amnesty may be correct, but not in anything remotely like the way they're trying to imply.
"Happy birthday, Mr. President. Please change your position on illegal alien amnesty before you send any more requests for money."
I have supported President Bush since his election in 2000, but there are some issues I disagree with him about. The idea of providing a free pass to reward bad behavior is one of them. But, I don't think he is a traitor, and I don't think he has ulterior motives about this. He's just wrong.
You obviously are clueless about the most important issue to come down the pike as of late.Fighting the WOT is a great idea,too bad it doesnt secure our borders which will ultimatly change the demographics for the worse in this country.
WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! TILL YOU RUN OUT OF INK IN YOUR PEN!
Bombard the Democrats as well, especially the ones that ran on an anti illegal immigration plank and the ones in marginal districts who could be vulnerable. keep pounding on them. This is a bipartisan issue not a Conservative or Liberal issue BUT AN AMERICAN issue.
No doubt.
Yes it is, Sir, Where I live (Miami, FL) only my family and close friends speak English. We are confused.
In WW2 unemployment dropped from about 8% to 1.2 % wages rose depending on parts of the country and industry (supply and demand)
We currently have about 6.9 million unemployed and about 5 million of those who want a job. there are another couple million who would work but are discouraged or only working part time and want full time employment.
Increase wages and far more people will be looking for jobs, such as housewives, welfare recipients students etc. Ask McCain how many people wanted his $50 an hour lettuce picking job.
Throw in some guest workers and increased technology (available in many industries including farming but only when labor costs go up) the only ones hurt will be the illegals heading south. Of course you might have to pay 5 cents more for a head of lettuce, but demand and price for some items may drop due to less demand from those who left the country. Tax revenues will go up when all the off the books types leave! (estimated at 9% of economy or 970 billion) Part of our good economy has been spurred on by the massive number of new illegals who are spending their newfound wealth. Yes there will be some drops in the economy when they levae but the overall benefits for our contry far outweigh the negatives.(reduced hospital costs jail costs, school cosst social services costs et)
FYI
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1843289/posts
“So those who say it’s not amnesty may be correct”
They’re not.
It may be amnesty plus something else, but it’s amnesty.
So if they are all deported, what do you do to have an economy for the months or years it will take to define “what comes next?”
Sorry, not buying it. There are plenty of working age people in this country, but they're not willing to do it for the subminimum wages illegals will accept.
The "what comes next" is that wages rise to attract people to pick the lettuce and mow the lawns, or people just do without as much lettuce, and mow their own damn lawns.
Maybe technology gets spurred to develop more machinery to harvest crops. Why should any farm machinery company spend time and money working on a machine to replace a $4 an hour worker? Maybe a $10 an hour worker is more replaceable by a lettuce picking machine that only costs $6 or $7 an hour to run, with the cost on that eventually coming down as the technology is perfected, as happens with everything else.
The government that doesn't care if I spend 3 or 4 dollars for a $1.50 gallon of gas, shouldn't try to put policies in place that guarantee a $1.50 head of lettuce.
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/krikorian200401070923.asp
http://www.nationalreview.com/lowry/lowry200603140822.asp
Put the prisoners sitting in the prisons and jails watching TV to work in the fields - there is ample labor available to replace illegals for those type of jobs. Cool Hand Luke, anyone?
Who said the only choice was
“ “get them all out first” and “let them all stay first”
If you don’t understand how feeble this false dichotomy argument is, you don’t understand the immigration issue AT ALL. The real choice is NOT between ‘amnesty’ versus ‘deportation’ that is a crock and a bogus red herring by the immigration open borders types. the choice is - ENFORCE THE LAW or NOT ENFORCE THE LAW. The real solution is:
1. Secure the border.
2. Create real enforcement of immigration law in the workplace and with local law enforcement involvement.
3. Change immigration from ‘chain migration’ to more employment based.
4. End ‘birthright citizenship’ and other inducements to illegal immigration.
...
Real solution is right here, all we have to do is say no to an amnesty that is intended to fail:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1843137/posts?page=367#367
“Because of the reality in the US that equals that of Japan and most of Europe — there there are not enough working age people in the country to provide a workforce.”
Nonsense. We create around 1 million jobs a year. We have *OVER* 1 million in legal immigration plus expansion in workforce of .5 million a year. DO THE MATH. We do NOT NEED amnesty and we do NOT NEED illegal immigration. The latter is low wage low skill low value add to our economy. Not needed, we have plenty of legal workers to do the job.
Also you fail to mention the flipside. More jobs, yes, but the median income is flat and falling for the lowest educated and lowest paid .... hmmmmm.
The idea that we ‘need’ more low wage illiterates for our economy is absurd. Our economy from 1945-1965 boomed, and it did it at levels of immigration a FRACTION of todays. Food for thought.
“The waving of the hand and talking about all the people waiting to come to the US from Europe also doesn’t work because if the US is seen to be draining working age people from those countries, those countries will simply offer monetary incentives for them to stay put.”
Nonsense. Legal immigration is over 1 million. If we simply changed that 1 million immigrants from ‘chain migration’ to employment based, we would satisfy employment needs and reduce dependency.
And if fewer people come than we want ... great, the huge backlogs of immigrants waiting to get in would get reduced for once.
“So what comes next? If you get full scale deportation, how does GNP growth stay north of negative 10% for the months or years it takes to define “what comes next?””
This is an absurd strawman. We have been told via other feeble arguments that mass deportation is ‘impossible’. So it wont happen. I would suggest you consider this:
- if we deport only the 600,000 awaiting deportation orders
and the 200,000 criminal aliens, would we have harmed the economy?
So you *oppose* deporting even criminals?!?
I would think not. You’d favor it, no matter how many taco stands would see a drop off in business.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1843137/posts?page=368#368
“Sorry, not buying it. There are plenty of working age people in this country, but they’re not willing to do it for the subminimum wages illegals will accept.”
That’s the key its not ‘are there workers’ there are *always* workers and *always* jobs, it is just where the supply and demand curves meet. And the wages dont have to fall much.
You have $20/hour American roofers run out by businesses that hire illegals at around $14/hour. (estimates)
The ‘immigrants’ (legal or illegal) are not making low wages in the construction trades, but they are holding down the wages enough to make Americans go elsewhere for a better paycheck. Maybe that would be okay ... if the immigrants were legal, paying taxes, not all under the table, etc.
” The “what comes next” is that wages rise to attract people to pick the lettuce and mow the lawns, or people just do without as much lettuce, and mow their own damn lawns.”
Even if lettuce-picking wages went up 50%, the head of lettuce would only cost a penny or two more. The amount of cost in the fruit picking etc is very small.
Also a good point that illegal immigrant labor has slowed down automation.
We DO NEED IMMIGRATION at some levels. But we only need legal immigration, preferably good skilled workers and not too many people who only add to social costs and contribute little net to the economy.
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