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To: pnh102

The reality is, fuel economy can be improved without simply dropping weight. Lets face facts.

I own a 1996 Chrysler Sebring Convertible, it gets about 25-28 MPG highway... the brand new 2008 Sebring Convertible, has the EXACT same MPG rating.... 12 years difference between the two. Please don’t tell me that there has been ZERO improvement in fuel economy in over a decade.

Counter this to my full size van with a 351 5.0L V8, it gets 14 MPG highway, a brand new van with a v8 gets about 18 MPG highway, with a smaller 4.6L V8 and it has a higher towing capacity as well! The body styles are nearly identical between the two vehciles, and the overall weight of the vehicles is not much different... and in spite of this, the newer vehicle has a 28% improvement in fuel economy!

Now whats the difference that 1 vehicle where the newer model is actually smaller and lighter, but has ZERO improvement in fuel economy in 12 years, and another vehicle that actually has a smaller engine, is more fuel efficient, has greater towing and power and has virtually the exact same exterior styling as the predecessor but has nearly a 30% improvement in fuel efficiency over 14 years? Simple, the manufacturer made fuel efficiency an issue during design of the engine and vehicle. The other did not.

I don’t believe you will see system wide fuel economy changes without mandates, just like you didn’t in the 70s until they had to do it. The idea that the only way you can get improvement in MPG is simply dropping weight, or giving up horsepower, is nonsense. Yes those are quick and easy ways to do it, but with the best gasoline engine only turning about 38% of the energy of gasoline into actual power the other 62% being lost to heat and friction, there is a ton of room for improvement.

Hell, just converting from Gasoline to Desiel based engines gives the automotive manufacturers an instant 12% gain in efficency and fuel economy, because Diesel engines only lose about 50% of the total energy in fuel to heat and friction... So at the very least a 10% improvement in fuel economy would be system wide if a major conversion to Diesel was made in the US.

I know I’ll get flamed, but those are the facts.


37 posted on 05/30/2007 7:32:46 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: HamiltonJay

That’s inaccurate; there is a 2.4 liter 4 cylinder 2008 Chrysler Sebring Convertible available that gets 20/29 EPA fuel economy. The 1996 equivalent got 18/26. The horsepower for the 1996 was 150; for the 2008 model it’s 173 hp. So, there have been some modest gains in efficiency and power.


46 posted on 05/30/2007 7:52:32 AM PDT by B Knotts (Anybody but Giuliani!)
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To: HamiltonJay

My sister trade in her Buick LaSabre for the new Lasalle and lost 2 mpg. My brother traded in his Chevy Impala for a newer Impala and lost 4 mpg. Newer comparable cars less gas mileage. Doesnt make sense.

My wife’s old Buick Roadmaster gets 26 on a trip and that’s better than either my brother’s or sister’s new cars.A big 350 V-8 getting as good as their V-6 front wheel drive new cars. Its crazy.


49 posted on 05/30/2007 8:28:53 AM PDT by sgtbono2002 (I'm gonna vote for Fred. John Bolton for VP.)
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