Giuliani"s Unwelcome Birthday Guests

The New York Observer ^ | 5/29/07 | Azi Paybarah

[SUSSA]

Here’s an unwelcome birthday gift for Rudy Giuliani, as he travels around the city raising money: protests from fire fighters and family members of September 11th victims.

They've shown up in the past at Giuliani's presidential events. Today, they’re gathering in Bay Ridge, and they have plans to follow him nationwide starting sometime around January, according to Jim Riches, a deputy chief with the fire department whose son was killed in the World Trade Center attacks.

“We have all the UFA, the UFOA, and the fire members are all behind us -- the International Association of Fire Fighters,” said Riches. “And we’re going to be out there today to let everybody know that he’s not the hero that he says he is.”

The group’s complaints center on the faulty radios used by the fire department that day and what they say was a lack of coordination at Ground Zero.

And Riches disputes the notion that Giuliani provided any form of leadership on September 11 or in the days following.

“If somebody can tell me what he did on 9/11 that was so good, I’d love to hear it. All he did was give information on the TV”

“He did nothing,” Riches continued. “He stood there with a TV reporter and told everyone what was going on. And he got it from everybody else down at the site.”

[TommyDale]

Well said, indylindy! On closer examination, Rudy Giuliani did not do any better than any other normal person would have done. Certainly better than Nagin in New Orleans, but no super hero as he is often portrayed by the Rudybots.

[BurtSB]

Hello its the UNION LEADERS PULLING THIS CRAP NOT THE RANK AND FILE .
These same FF union people did the same crap during 2004 to Bush.

Are you that uninformed or just a DU pest ?

[BurtSB]

Gee have you noticed a strategy of the slow constant drip of non stop attacks. Rudy strong points is his 9-11 leadership . Good Lord are you this naive of the DNC / Clinton attack machine or just a DU pest ?
Theses same FF union goons did the same exact protest against Bush in 2004 ?

[EternalVigilance]

Given a choice between 9-11 families, firefighters, and Rudy Giuliani, I’ll go with the families and firefighters, thanks. Rudy’s just living on other people’s glory. That’s what he does.

[BurtSB]

Hello !!! These are the FF UNION BOSSES not the rank and file .
Good Lord the Rudy haters are a naive lot and believe any Clinton machine attack on Rudy .
These same FF union goons trashed Bush in 2004 .
Does anyone have a memory longer than 6 months ?

[BurtSB]

Okay , Rudy basher so you recall he had Prostate CANCER ?
Are you this stupid and gullible and blinded by Rudy hate
to fall for this stale old smear the FF union heads have been peddling since 2002 !
As I recall he received a heroes welcome by the rank and file and the UNION head trash him at the same time .
The FF Union is the DNC idiot.

[SUSSA]

We’ll see as this gets more coverage. From what I understand there were firefighters in the first tower when it fell who never got the word to get out because of trouble with their radios. But, like Kerry’s war record, it will take some time for everything to get out.

It’ll be fun to watch.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

These are Clinton Union Goons doing her dirty work

Good. Rudy needs to be taken down and hard.

[P-40]

The radio issues were studied extensively after the 1993 WTC attacks then put on a shelf, basically. They emerged once more on 9/11 in a terrible way. I don’t know how many more could have been saved had those problems been solved. 100? 200? We will never know.

[SUSSA]

A lot of union members died on 9-11 trying to save people.

If I were in a burning building I’d rather have a union firefighter show up than have come Rudy and posture on TV.

I’ll stick with the guys who risked their lives rather than the liberal media whore, Rudy.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Rudy strong points is his 9-11 leadership

All Rudy did was console people and held a city together.

Oprah Winfrey could have done the same thing.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Rudy wins whenever 9/11 is the issue - PLAIN and SIMPLE

Which is why Rudy talks about it non-stop.

Face it, if it wasn't for 9/11, Rudy wouldn't be nobody, just another liberal big-city mayor with low approval ratings.

[SUSSA]

You’re right that we’ll never know how many died because of those radios. We do know some people would have been saved though.

[P-40]

But more than the radios it was the lack of coordination between two distinct services (police and fire) that had not trained together as recommended after the 1993 attacks. This training was *in part* what made the rescue at the Pentagon go so well. Even now, if this sort of inter-departmental training has not occurred, no radio on earth is going to do them any good.

Some of the more esoteric stuff that may have saved lives, like the callers that reported pictures were starting to swing away from the walls or the helicopter pilot that said a part of the building's wall was going to fall away would have been crucial knowledge...but how could you communicate such things in real time even if you understood the significance?

[SUSSA]

Spot on! Well said.

[fish hawk]

I’m not fond of Giuliani but if it came to believing lying Union bastards or Rudy, I’d go with Rudy. Unions, which were a good thing thirty years ago or more are the plague of this county now. Either thieves, or commies, or both.

[SUSSA]

The unions put Reagan in office. You can’t be a firefighter in NYC without being in a union.

If you are ever in a burning building you’ll be damn glad the union firefighter shows up. If Rudy showes up it will be to talk to the press, not to save your butt.

[calcowgirl]

Many of the posts in this thread miss the impact of this completely.
If you attack Rudy on 9/11 - you strength him and his chances in the general election.
Rudy wins whenever 9/11 is the issue - PLAIN and SIMPLE

Let's see.
9/11.
Thousands of lives lost, yet thousands more saved.
Firefighters on the scene, many losing their lives saving others.
Rudy on the scene, looking for a photo op.

Okay... let's vote: Rudy vs. Firefighters

I'll vote for the Firefighters.

[July 4th]

This is different than what the Swift Boat Vets were able to do. There was no record on Kerry until the vets told their story; that's quite a bit different than the case with Giuliani. Sure, you can challenge him on what actually went on behind the scenes, but for millions of people on 9/11, they know exactly what they saw.

Furthermore, many of the firefighters' gripes are things about which Giuliani really had no control. The common complaint right now is that he sent firefighters in to unsafe conditions during the rescue and recovery. But honestly, he's screwed either way on that one. If he called off the rescue a day after the collapse for health reasons, you'd have fewer firefighters complaining but a hell of a lot more families who never found their loved ones.

I'm not a die hard Rudy supporter - my preferred candidate hasn't yet entered the race. But I think it's a little irresponsible for so many people here on FR to jump on the anti-Rudy bandwagon just because someone else's cause happens to further their goals. I know where FR stood in the whole Coulter-9/11 Widows debate, and it would be my guess right now that quite a few people here would be giving the widows a second look just because it seeks to tarnish the Giuliani campaign.

One of the few decent memories of 9/11 was being able to see Rudy on the ground in NYC. You can argue about what he actually did, but it's a fact that he provided leadership during a time when the President was being shuffled from base to base, away from constant contact with the public. For many hours, he was the man out front. We seem all too willing to wipe that memory away in the name of getting a conservative through the Republican presidential primary.

[willk]

“If they were nothing more than “Clinton Union Goons,” wouldn’t they be waiting until after the primaries to sink him?”

Not if they are afraid he has the best chance of beating her.