Chertoff Warns of 'Silent Amnesty' on Immigration

I call it as I see it :)

The aginer’s in this forum have to understand that “deportation only” is not a feasible economic or political alternative at this time. I find it amusing that the compromise fashioned by President Bush and his allies in the Senate is being attacked vociferously by both the politicians on the far right and the far left. This bill combines border enforcement, a path to legal status for illegal immigrants which includes hefty fines and fees, a skill based point system to determine the worthiness of future immigrants, and a guest worker program. This is a sensible alternative to the present situation. As long as the people on the right sound like a broken record yelling “amnesty”, they will be ignored by all just as the lefty’s are being ignored by everyone trying to kill the guest worker program. As you can tell from what has happened in the last week, the debate is going to be over the nuts and bolts of this proposal, not deportation. If you want some input into what occurs, then make some proposals regarding the enforcement provisions (which you seem most concerned about). If you don’t wish to come to table, then don’t complain when the demo’s roll you on your issue. I have already spoken to my Congressman to express support in general for this legislation, with a few changes regarding family reunification provisions.

If you don’t want a sensible solution, fine. I don’t have problem with that. I have that are folks on both sides of the political spectrum that oppose this legislation because they benefit by keeping this unresolved. The more chaos, the better for the organizations they run and benefit from. Myself, I will continue to work for a solution to this vexing problem, rather than tilt at windmills like some here.

Final prediction based on my discussions are that this bill will pass the Senate with minor changes 63-36, and in the house approximately 40-50 Republicans will support it’s passage (30-40 demo’s will oppose it) and send it to the President for his signature.

“Prosecute employers harshly and illegals will DEPORT THEMSELVES... They will slip back across the border exactly like they came here..”

Gee, I live 20 miles from Mexico in San Diego and all the illegals that I know personally are self-employed and work for cash: gardeners, car detailers, nannies, maids, day laborers, et cetera. It is very easy to get identification which says that you are legal.

[.. Gee, I live 20 miles from Mexico in San Diego and all the illegals that I know personally are self-employed and work for cash: gardeners, car detailers, nannies, maids, day laborers, et cetera. It is very easy to get identification which says that you are legal. ..]

Exactly.. Citizens that aid/harbor this insurgency should be able to LOOSE their citizenship.. along with the insurgents.. Including those BORN HERE and the legal familys of the illegals being harbored..

The odds of that happening is nil unless their were a Civil War..

“If they (RNC) ask for money”
They don’t ask me anymore.

The aginer’s in this forum have to understand that “deportation only” is not a feasible economic or political alternative at this time.

Ah, now that they've ignored enforcement and let the problem grow big enough, the time is right for them to use that as their excuse...

This bill combines border enforcement,

As have many bills in the past that were never enforced, bills that promised MORE in the way of enforcement than this bill does. Only a complete fool (or someone with ulterior motivation) would believe (or profess to believe) that any more enforcement will result from this bill than has from any other.

a path to legal status for illegal immigrants which includes hefty fines and fees,

Obviously 'hefty' is subjective, but the piddling small amounts I've heard discussed (less than one year's federal tax liability for most honest, legitimate Americans, so such 'fines' let the lawbreakers off easier than citizens who have actually obeyed the law) are as likely to be enforced as are the 'enforcement' provisions promised in this bill and time and time again in the past.

a skill based point system to determine the worthiness of future immigrants, and a guest worker program.

Want to debate FUTURE immigration, or the criminal horde that's here NOW? I favor LEGAL immigration, you want to talk about that? Fine. But I won't condone criminals, the criminals who break the law to hire them, or support granting amnesty to them because we need a new underclass to exploit.

This is a sensible alternative to the present situation.

Yes. Enforce the laws on immigration we already have. Nothing else is befitting of a society that claims to have rule-of-law.

>>The aginer’s in this forum have to understand that “deportation only” is not a feasible economic or political alternative at this time.<<

If you include self-deportation by busting employers gradually as "not feasible" then you seem to be claiming there will never be a solution, which is in fact what this bill almost guarantees. If busting employers does not work, why do you present it as a virtue of this bill?

>>This bill combines border enforcement,<<

Rather, a promise of enforcement which has never been kept before. One definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing but to expect a different result.

>>a path to legal status for illegal immigrants which includes hefty fines and fees,<<

Wrong, they get legal status in 24 hours. You seem to be intelligent, but have you even read the bill? "Hefty fines and fees," which are for those that apply for "permanent residence" (even though they are not required to), are in fact much less than a coyote would charge for multiple entries during the same period. They can pay these "hefty fees" on installment. and I would not be surprised if future laws exempted them from paying anything at all.

>>a skill based point system to determine the worthiness of future immigrants,<<

Which is not scheduled to do anything for 8 years, and I believe that is plenty of time for the special interests to change the law. Another swindle.

>>and a guest worker program.<<

That part of the bill might be OK, but its implementation will be in the hands of bureaucrats that allowed Mohammed Atta to get an approved visa months after he was dead.

>>As long as the people on the right sound like a broken record yelling “amnesty”, they will be ignored by all just as the lefty’s are being ignored by everyone trying to kill the guest worker program.<<

"Amnesty" is exactly what this bill is about. And it must be an effective label to pin on traitor politicians who are not fulfilling their constitutional duty to the people, because so many of them are denying it. They are supposed to work for us.

>>If you want some input into what occurs, then make some proposals regarding the enforcement provisions (which you seem most concerned about).<<

So we peasants are not allowed any input about the amnesty and despicable unfairness of this bill? The fact is, it will be extremely difficult to evaluate, or even to find agreement on who should really evaluate the effectiveness of the program. Even though I have faithfully supported Bush and his father for so many years, I do not trust anyone in this administration any more. Why is immediate amnesty necessary?

>>If you don’t wish to come to table, then don’t complain when the demo’s roll you on your issue.

Republicans are just as much to blame as the Dems. I almost think it would have been better for them to lose a few more seats in the senate. If this passes they will be punished severely in 2008.

>>I have already spoken to my Congressman to express support in general for this legislation, with a few changes regarding family reunification provisions.<<

So have most of us, but many of them do not care what we think. I think my 2 senators are leaning against, and my House representative is solidly opposed.

>>Myself, I will continue to work for a solution to this vexing problem, rather than tilt at windmills like some here.<<

OK, here is another literary reference: Your solution includes pulling the Trojan Horse inside our walls.

>>Final prediction based on my discussions are that this bill will pass the Senate with minor changes 63-36, and in the house approximately 40-50 Republicans will support it’s passage (30-40 demo’s will oppose it) and send it to the President for his signature.<<

God help us if you are right. I don't know if that would be the end of the Republican party, but it would severely weaken it. I am running for precinct chairman and promise to do my damndest to clean up the corrupt leadership at the top. In my opinion, that might make Bush surpass Carter as the worst president, as bad as Carter was. I guess you missed Pelosi's promise that she would not support it without 70 Republican votes. She does not want to bear the entire blame in 2008. Kay Bailey Hutchison just had a talk with Jorge Bush, and commented afterwards that he had a better understanding of the depth of opposition among her constituents.

ping

Someone asked Raymond Chandler if Marlowe was his alter ego. Chandler replied, no. He’s a far better man than I am.

I hope I (the freeper) can live up to half the man that Marlowe was (in tracking down the truth, exposing liars, defending what is right, and maintaining my integrity).

I am delighted that in the “Ghost of Philip Marlowe”; he is still with us.