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To: 4CJ
Sorry, but the facts prove otherwise. You wrote, 'my position is that the South wanted to walk away from obligations to debt and treaties, take whatever federal property they wanted without compensation of any kind, and leave the remaining states to shoulder the responsibility'

Which is an accurate description of what they did. They did walk out. They did repudiate the debt. They did seize property without compensation. They did not offer settlement before doing so.

The TRUTH is that they sent ambassadors to Washington to negotiate settlement of all debts.

The TRUTH is that they sent representatitives to Washington to demand recognition from the Lincoln administration. Depending on which document you look at then included in the instructions, but only once recognition had been obtained, were ever more vague offers to discuss issues which may or may not have included settlement of debt and compensation for property seized.

Which brings up an interesting question. Had the South actually offered to pay for the property and make good on their share of the debt, then wouldn't that be an admission that their actions of walking out on their responsibility and taking whatever they wanted were wrong to begin with?

You assert that the South took 'whatever federal property they wanted without compensation of any kind' The TRUTH is that properties in question were WHOLLY inside non-US territories, erected for the defense of the state, not some capital a hundred or thousand miles away. Being real property they cannot be removed.

They were still federal property. All states had an interest in them, not just the rebelling ones.

The properties were SURRENDERED by US forces peacefully.

The properties were seized. Some, like a number of the military properties, were unoccupied and the rebel forces just walked in. Others, like mints and courthouses and revenue cutters, were seized. Still others, were surrendered by commanders without proper authority and the federal troops expelled. In all the cases the property was illegally acquired.

Even then, to prevent deranged idiots from claiming that they stole them, South Carolina and the CSA sent ambassadors to Washington to negotiate settlement of all debts.

You can keep repeating that nonsense all you want and it doesn't change facts. Even had the South made a serious offer to compensate, if I steal your car and then offer you money for it does that make my actions right?

And lastly, you assert that the South left 'the remaining states to shoulder the responsibility.' What responsibility?

Responsibility for debt built up by the nation as a whole while the rebellious states were a part. Responsibility for treaty obligations like the anti-slavery patrols which the U.S. had to shoulder without the assets seized by the Southern states before and after Sumter. That responsibility.

What clause in the Constitution forces them to remain? (please respond with factual, concrete citations, not your usual living constitution made of implicit vague, touchy feely liberal notions)

I've pointed out the applicable clauses with gives the power to Congress to create states and approve changes in their status. I've pointed out that implicit in this is the power to approve leaving altogether, as the Supreme Court found. As to the 'touchy feely liberal notion' of implied powers, I've never thought of Chief Justice Marshall as that much of a liberal. But then again I don't have your odd view of the world.

The forts were built with monies from from the federal treasury.

Which would mean that all those contributing to the federal treasury have an ownership share in them, would it not? The Southern states contributed some of the money used to build the forts. So did Ohio and New York and Connecticut and so forth. They deserved to be compensated for their share.

By 'walking away' as you claim, the South relinquished claim to their portion of EVERY asset

And the South was free to give up any claims that they wanted to. Nobody held a gun to their head and said they couldn't. But that doesn't give them the right to say, "what was yours is now mine because I gave up x, y, and z" without the other owners having a say in the matter.

The South wanted nothing more than to be separated from demented ilk like you, and like Lincoln, you have the audacity to demand that we remain your friends and be inseparable.

They they went about it in an odd way. Stealing, welching on debt, shooting up property that wasn't given over on demand.

I pity you and your family.

You may keep your pity. It isn't necessary, and certainly isn't sincere.

1,372 posted on 06/01/2007 12:22:48 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Non-Sequitur
You may keep your pity. It isn't necessary, and certainly isn't sincere.

I assure you, it's VERY sincere.

1,377 posted on 06/01/2007 12:52:16 PM PDT by 4CJ (Annoy a liberal, honour Christians and our gallant Confederate dead)
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