Posted on 05/23/2007 2:59:55 PM PDT by george76
Remedial classes await.
Thousands of Colorado high schoolers are graduating this month with plans to go to college in the fall.
Hundreds of them will be academically unprepared when they get there.
Those students will take — and pay for — remedial classes that don’t count toward a degree.
Educators say the need for remedial work is fueled largely by a lack of communication between high schools and colleges about what’s important to know. They also say high school students need to pay closer attention to class selection and grades, especially in the senior year when many coast toward graduation day. And, some say, high school should be more rigorous.
About 30 percent of recent high school graduates who went to Colorado’s public colleges last year were assigned to remedial courses in at least one subject, the report said. The number rose to about 56 percent at two-year colleges.
Nearly 61 percent of students were assigned to remedial classes at Pikes Peak Community College.
Even in the Pikes Peak region’s top-performing high schools, as many as 20 to 30 percent of graduates needed remedial help in college.
(Excerpt) Read more at gazette.com ...
Educators say the need for remedial work is fueled largely by a lack of communication between high schools and colleges about what’s important to know. They also say high school students need to pay closer attention to class selection and grades, especially in the senior year when many coast toward graduation day.
That's a load of crap, the HS educators are just to wussified to demand any academic excellence from the students.
Additionally, there's gotten to be some bizarre idea that every single person is fit for higher education, and if it's not in the sciences well by god there'll be a degree for lawn care, pottery and underwater fire prevention too. It's a racket now, whereas 75 years ago, university degrees were a calling...
It’s because not only are they evil, more often than not they’re stupid too...
By the way, not all college professors are liberal wingnuts.
Especially the geologists :-), though we do need to take a stick to the environmental scientists that get spawned in the fires of our creation...
(Where I went to school, if you couldn't hack the math and physics, folks dropped from a Geology BS down to an "Environmental Sciences" BA).
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These children may have turned out even **worse** in government institutional schooling.
It is impossible to do a double blind study on these children, so no one can know how badly or how well they would have done if institutionalized. My guess, ( which is a good as anyone’s in cases like these ) is they would have done **worse**!
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Gems? Really?
What is gem-like about segregating children from adults into same-aged groups for most of their waking day? ( 6 to 8 or more hours, including bus time)
What is so gem-like about herding children around like sheep to the sound of Pavlov’s bell?
What is so gem-like about foisting even more school work on them in the after hours? If adults would like to relax in the evening, why on earth wouldn’t children? Homework is supposedly good for children, but if adults bring work home they are called Type A personalities and advised not to neglect their families?
What is so gem-like about subjecting children to teasing and physical and sexual abuse? This is again called “good” for children, and we are told that it prepares them for the “real world”. Adults, however, working in the real world, are awarded millions in court?
What is so gem-like about interrupting the concentration and work of children with continual bells? Why are they taught that the bell is more important than their work? Then when they do have learning disabilities, (due to the constant interruptions and general chaos of having gangs of children in their enviroment), parents and teachers wonder why they have never learned to concentrate!
What is so gem-like about sexual education classes that break down the natural and protective modesty of children?
Why are children treated like prisoners? This is gem-like?
Children are marched about in groups to bells. They ride buses that look like prison work gang buses. The people with whom they associate are chosen by their guards ( oops! teachers and principals). They are told when to eat, rest, exercise, sit, stand, and speak. They are marched through metal detectors, and are subject to searches. They are forced to take group showers. Government schools often even look like prisons with their chain link fences.
Why is it good to train children to willing submit to government prison-like treatment? Hey! Even the language of government schools is prison-like with “lock downs”, “in-house suspensions”, “zero-tolerance”, “drug free zones” and “gun free zones”.
Sorry,,,but all of the above exists in the best of the best government institutional schools. I fail to see it as being a “gem” way to treat a child.
OK,,,a reminder:
The above is a **general** statement about government schools. It is **not** a personal attack on any poster who might possibly be a government teacher or a parent who might be institutionalizing their child in government schools.
I have absolutely no interest in your opinion.
The kid had been public schooled and, IMO, was headed towards being a serial killer. No joke. The stories I could tell you about him....
His parents tried for one year to homeschool him but he wouldn’t listen to his mother and his father wouldn’t back her, so back into public school he went.
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Sadly, the government forced some poor child to sit next to this budding psychopath. ( so much for our First Amendment Right to free assembly and free association).
Sadly, he wasn’t too out of the ordinary for the community we lived in. I think seeing the other budding psychopath who lived down the street for a short time was the big scale tipper in our decision. Thank you welfare.
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Perhaps we should jointly discuss this with the moderator, so that we can have some clarification.
So...you would like to publicize your opinions on a **public** message board, but then demand that others ( of your choosing) on this **public** forum not respond?
Wow! What a way to shut down your opposition! This seems very one sided to me.
Metmom, RBKA Democrat,
You have had more experience on this message board than I have. What is the etiquette here? Personally, I would like your opinion about what to do.
You can respond... if you're willing to talk about the issues, and stop calling all schools "indoctrination centers" and other such frantic rhetoric.
You can respond... if you’re willing to talk about the issues, and stop calling all schools “indoctrination centers” and other such frantic rhetoric.
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Jude,
What authority do you have to grant or withhold permission, as to whether a person posts to you or not? This is a public message board. If you don’t want people to post to you then the best approach is to not participate.
How did you acquire the authority to decide whether language is inflammatory or not? Were you aware that the term “indoctrination center” is used by many on this board, and has been for a very long time.
STOP POSTING TO ME.
i know hundreds of homeschooled kids, and i only know personally of two kids (from the same family — not a very motivated one) who were unprepared academically for college (and still haven’t attended). A huge majority of homeschooling families have college prep as their single motivation and goal. You’re not going to find too many homeschoolers who are graduating high school and flipping burgers or working at the mall. Not like there’s anything wrong with that. 8-)
i’m single and homeschool four.
STOP POSTING TO ME.
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I have asked the moderator for advice on this matter.
“Baloney. A lot of good kids graduate public school well-prepared for college and make something of themselves. You just don’t hear about them, and no one trumpets “ANOTHER REASON TO PUBLIC SCHOOL” whenever something goes right.”
I’ll match your “baloney” and raise you.
Given the incredible amount of resources that are poured into the government schools, I should hope that they would occasionally graduate a child who is well prepared for college and who will make something of themselves. If I understand your argument correctly, it is not enough that we pay a King’s ransom for the services that the government schools provide, we should also provide additional resources and make additional efforts to laud the government schools them when they actually accomplish their job? Are you suggesting a national holiday perhaps?
I take it as a given that those who are being paid to provide a service will actually provide a quality service on a more or less consistent basis. That’s not something to celebrate, it’s a basic expectation. If I go into a restaurant and pay for a hamburger, I would reasonably expect that I receive a cooked hamburger. With the government schools, their job is to provide educational services. That those students actually go onto to be well prepared for college is what they’re supposed to do.
Unfortunately, as this article indicates, the high school students who do go on to college, which are not all high school graduates I should hasten to add, are not particularly well prepared. The colleges are and have been forced to provide remedial education because the high school graduates that they receive don’t have the basic math or literary skills to succeed in college.
But let’s not focus our scrutiny merely on the high end of the scale; the kids who graduate government high schools and go on to college. Let’s also take a look at the other end of the scale: the kids who don’t graduate high school at all. There are all sorts of ways of cooking the dropout statistics, but I’ll use the relatively positive NCES statistic regarding 18-24 year olds who have either graduated high school or obtained a GED. About 15% of 18-24 year olds have neither a diploma nor a GED. Are you going to argue that we should celebrate that the rate isn’t 30%? To expand my restaurant analogy further, do you honestly believe that a restaurant who failed 15% of the time would still remain in business? And remember, the NCES statistic is positively skewed as it includes those students who didn’t actually graduate High School, but who received a GED at a later time.
I do think you’re correct on one point, though. I think you’ve identified the need for a new pinglist on FR, and I urge you to go ahead and start it. I’ve noticed that there are plenty of FReepers who are dependent on the government schools for their subsidized day care services. And there are others who seem to have a burning desire to act as apologists for the NEA. They need and deserve their own pinglist.
Ever examine where all the money goes? A large part of it goes to special education - paying to educate those who are, in many cases, almost uneducatable, hoping to make them at least able to function independently.
we should also provide additional resources and make additional efforts to laud the government schools them when they actually accomplish their job? Are you suggesting a national holiday perhaps?
Strawman argument.
Unfortunately, as this article indicates, the high school students who do go on to college, which are not all high school graduates I should hasten to add, are not particularly well prepared. The colleges are and have been forced to provide remedial education because the high school graduates that they receive don’t have the basic math or literary skills to succeed in college. But let’s not focus our scrutiny merely on the high end of the scale; the kids who graduate government high schools and go on to college
That's not the "High end." The "high end" would be the geniuses, the prodigies, and the well-educated but merely smart (who, I can assure you, need no remedial education).
Here's what I'm saying - and I'll use small words so you can understand. Public education does not always work - there are a lot of struggling schools, and a lot of very good schools. It does homeschoolers no good to paint all public schools with the same brush, and every time a failing public school comes to attention use that as an argument against public education in general. Instead, individual parents should examine their own circumstances - are the schools around them very good? Can they afford private schools? Do they have the time, abilities, and inclination to educate the children themselves? There are three good options facing every parent - homeschool, private school, and public school. That decision is an individual one - and you should never second-guess a parent who made his decision.
“I need some help. Is there an etiquette page for this board? I honestly do **not** wished to be banned from the board, and fully wish to comply with all rules and regulations.”
Given that I’m a Democrat, I’ve always had to deal with the possibility of being banned. To date, that has not happened. For a long time I think I pulled my punches on certain issues as a result of it. Infanticide, for example. There was a time on FR when being both a Democrat and anti-infanticide was enough kindling to start a flame war. So I simply kept my own counsel for awhile.
I’ve come to the conclusion that so long as you stick with the rules (most important of which is to remember that this is a CONSERVATIVE website) and observe the Golden Rule, it’s unlikely that you will be banned. But it’s always a possibility. This is a private forum and Mr. Robinson or the mods can ban you for any or no reason.
My personal experience, to Mr. Robinson and the mods credit, is that they are fairly tolerant of alternative viewpoints. Where that tolerance does not exist, for example toward those who shill for Mayor Giuliani, there is usually plenty of warning.
My advice to you is *NOT* to pull your rhetorical punches, but to make your arguments in a way that is consistently polite. I have some additional rules about my own conduct that I try to stick to (see my homepage).
As for the more specific issue of what to do when someone asks you to not post them. My inclination would be to step back and look at the situation.
If someone is posting on a thread where the subject matter is say “campaign finance reform” and a poster wishes to extol the virtues of it, then I think it’s perfectly acceptable to respond to that poster regarding an on-topic post. You shouldn’t flame them or impugn their character, but I wouldn’t back away from the debate either. I also wouldn’t go chasing a poster from thread to thread. Remember that by posting on a thread, the poster invites debate. We don’t own this website, so we don’t have the right to pick and choose who posts.
I think you’ve correctly identified the “don’t post me” as a cagey rhetorical technique of being “offended” to silence opposing points of view. Kind of like how “political correctness” is used to silence debate. I don’t intend to cater to it. You always post at your own risk.
This can be a fairly frisky forum at times, and those who don’t like the heat of spirited debate have the possibility of either self-exiling themselves, or not posting their opinion. If those alternatives are not acceptable, then I welcome them to take their concerns up with the mods.
I think they’re going to find that the mods don’t appreciate being asked to play mama for those who can’t handle spirited debate.
“Yet why are the BLACK administrators also running scared?”
I don’t know. I suspect it has to do with some of the charges and counter-charges that are leveled within the black community.
“You have had more experience on this message board than I have. What is the etiquette here? Personally, I would like your opinion about what to do.”
I provided wintertime my opinion at 118.
In my view, posting is at your own risk. I do not have the “right” to decide who responds to my posts, nor do I have the “right” to determine the rhetorical techniques used in the posts that do respond, so long as it’s done within the general rules for posting that we all agreed to.
Conversely, I would not intend to respect the wishes of those who would seek to assert some nebulous “right” that does not exist as a tactic to silence debate that doesn’t fit their worldview. Their choices are (1) don’t post, (2) post elsewhere, or (3) take it up with the mods.
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